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Thread

Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-07 by Robert Fletcher

Hello, for some reason my first post that are made at the beginning of 
the month never showed up even though it came back to me as approved. So 
I will try again.

I am based in the UK, what I want to be able to do is to print 
reasonable to good quality black-and-white prints. From what I have read 
and tried to understand I would need an Epson printer. As a pensioner my 
budget is limited. Can any members advise me on printers. I have been 
looking at the Epson P 50 certainly within my budget.

The next question comes about inks I am finding it very confusing as to 
what inks I should purchase or even if the cartridges are available.

I would really appreciate some help on this.

Robert\ufffd

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-07 by Robert Fletcher

As I have had no responses so far to my question and yet a similar basic 
questions be posted I can only assume that I have not put my question in 
a clear enough way..

My preferred format is 8 x 10 and I use this size for proofing. I am 
looking for a printer that does not give colour casts and the only way I 
can see of doing this is to use MIS inks in an Epson printer. When I 
decide on a large format exhibition photo I much prefer to have this 
done and silver/gelatin paper and my preferred laboratory is Ilford. 
After attending many exhibitions I would need a lot of convincing that 
ink printing can match or be better than silver/gelatin paper done by a 
good laboratory.

So can someone please help me come to some decision about a printer that 
will meet my basic requirements. There is a lot being said in another 
post about using one printer for both colour and black and white. I do 
not want to go down this path I just want a small dedicated print of the 
black-and-white. Up to now the Epson stylus P50 seems to be the only 
printer I can find and this seems to use the MIS EB6 however 
inksupply.com seem to have this printer listed as Epson Photo 50 and 
Epson Stylus 50 but a search of the Epson website seems to point this 
out as the P50.

Currently most of the prints are tied do after inspecting them are 
destroyed this is because of the colour casting. Any prints I keep are 
ordered from Ilford and this includes photos down to 5 x 7. I just want 
to do direct printing at home for the smaller format prints tha is 8 x 
10 and sometimes less.

I don't know how to make my question any simpler that someone may feel 
inclined to answer and guide me.

Robert\ufffd

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 07/01/2013 06:51, Robert Fletcher wrote:
> Hello, for some reason my first post that are made at the beginning of
> the month never showed up even though it came back to me as approved. So
> I will try again.
>
> I am based in the UK, what I want to be able to do is to print
> reasonable to good quality black-and-white prints. From what I have read
> and tried to understand I would need an Epson printer. As a pensioner my
> budget is limited. Can any members advise me on printers. I have been
> looking at the Epson P 50 certainly within my budget.
>
> The next question comes about inks I am finding it very confusing as to
> what inks I should purchase or even if the cartridges are available.
>
> I would really appreciate some help on this.
>
> Robert\ufffd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-08 by Paul Roark

Robert Fletcher <robert@...> wrote:
...

What MIS and I did some time ago was set up the C82 and on up to the
C88+ as starting point "MIS EZ" printers.  The good things about that
line were that they were cheap and only had 4 ink spots.  I was able
to set up an inkset that used a single midtone (color position)
density and get rather nice results from them with the Epson driver
and simple workflows.  The MIS EZ inksets are still available.

For my uses, the Epson Workforce printers are a better choice.  So, I
set up my family with the smaller ones and I have a 13 inch workforce
1100 as my text printer (2 black carts/ink channels makes it fly for
text) as well as my backup and extra photo printer.  I can print any
number of inksets in it -- very well.  (Like for 13" carbon glossy
prints it did better than my 7800.)  Eboni-6 (but only 4 positions) is
available for the 1100.  However, QTR does not support the 1100, so
it's usefulness is limited by that as well as the lesser number of
inks.

My B&W information pages are at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/ with
an index of sorts by printer and inkset at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Inkset-list.html .  I don't really
address the starting point that much, however.

> When I
> decide on a large format exhibition photo I much prefer to have this
> done and silver/gelatin paper and my preferred laboratory is Ilford.

Silver has it's place -- as a retro, alternative process.

Probably most of the regular posters here have a silver print
background and moved to inkjet for any number of reasons.  I still
have the darkroom and worked though 8x10 digital internegatives for a
while to combine Photoshop controls with my silver printing output,
but the inkjets simply got better.  I can't imagine ever going back
now.

I keep some of my silver prints on the wall in a few viewing areas for
comparisons.  For me, it didn't take all that long to match or exceed
their visual quality, however.

In any case, if it is within what is possible, if you're serious
enough to pay a lab for large prints, it's probably worth your while
to get a 13 inch printer like the 1100 or 1430, even if just for
proofing.  I have two 1400's and consider that line to be simply the
best, most flexible there is.  Getting a printer that is well
supported by various inksets has considerable value.

You mentioned Eboni-6.  That is not necessarily a novice inkset, but
it is one that is relatively well supported, including being
pre-loaded by MIS.  In have my general Eboni-6 write up at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Eboni-6.pdf .  I often use
derivatives of this (Eb4 for the 1100, Eboni with some HP neutral/cool
inks for the 1400 and 7800).  Having a system that prints the tones
you like matters.  The Ilford silver gelatins I did were slightly
warm.  I'm not sure what your lab is using.  I actually preferred a
cooler print, which is one reason I have set up the Eboni-6 with the
HP pigs.

> I just want a small dedicated print of the
> black-and-white.

Check out the C88 EZ.  However, if you're paying labs for large
prints, I sense your goals are beyond that.

> ... destroyed this is because of the colour casting.

At a very minimum, you need 3 gray/black inks.  I prefer 4 or more.
Using color printers that have no gray ink core is hopeless.

Good luck with the search.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-08 by Mark Tomlinson

Hello

I am not an expert on small format printers, but I am in the UK so I can 
tell you my experience at least to get the ball rolling.

I have tried most of the B&W solutions (mixing my own eboni-6, MIS 
dedicated inks, piezography etc.) and I am in the UK like you. I use 
epson 2100 with UT7 or eboni 6 inks from MIS, epson 3880 and epson 7800 
using advanced black and white mode.

The easiest way to make bw prints without a cast is to buy a printer 
that uses the epson advanced black and white system. I don't think this 
is an option for you on your budget and these printers are all larger 
A3+ size as far as I know.

The next option would be to buy an epson printer like the one you 
suggest (I am not familiar with it) if it can hold refillable 
cartridges. Bear in mind that model numbers for the same printer often 
differ in the US from the UK. You can usually get these cartridges from 
MIS in the US or ebay in the uk. You should also check out 
www.marrutt.co.uk as they have a lot of info and products on dedicated 
black and white and they are UK based.

Then you buy a set of bulk monochrome inks from MIS such as UT7 or mix 
up your own from one bottle of black ink. I am not sure if the printer 
you suggest will take the MIS pigment inks as it is a dye printer (heads 
can clog), but there may be dye based options you can use (Paul Roark 
has some Claria dye based options to mix dye based black and white on 
his website or you might be able to use a black-only printing method - I 
really can't advise you on this).

You will have to pay a relatively high initial outlay and probably 
customs charges etc. if you import ink from the US. But once you have 
the ink and carts it is quite cheap in the long run. You also need to 
factor in whether you are printing on matte or glossy paper. Different 
inks may be required.  You can get nice 8x10s (A4 size) in glossy with a 
paper such as Harman FB.

Not quite answered your questions, but perhaps others will chime in? If 
you are based anywhere near Sheffield you could take my epson 2100 and 
some (out of date) inks as I no longer use them having switched to the 
3880 for most of my printing.

Regards
Mark

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 07/01/2013 18:14, Robert Fletcher wrote:
> As I have had no responses so far to my question and yet a similar basic
> questions be posted I can only assume that I have not put my question in
> a clear enough way..
>
> My preferred format is 8 x 10 and I use this size for proofing. I am
> looking for a printer that does not give colour casts and the only way I
> can see of doing this is to use MIS inks in an Epson printer. When I
> decide on a large format exhibition photo I much prefer to have this
> done and silver/gelatin paper and my preferred laboratory is Ilford.
> After attending many exhibitions I would need a lot of convincing that
> ink printing can match or be better than silver/gelatin paper done by a
> good laboratory.
>
> So can someone please help me come to some decision about a printer that
> will meet my basic requirements. There is a lot being said in another
> post about using one printer for both colour and black and white. I do
> not want to go down this path I just want a small dedicated print of the
> black-and-white. Up to now the Epson stylus P50 seems to be the only
> printer I can find and this seems to use the MIS EB6 however
> inksupply.com seem to have this printer listed as Epson Photo 50 and
> Epson Stylus 50 but a search of the Epson website seems to point this
> out as the P50.
>
> Currently most of the prints are tied do after inspecting them are
> destroyed this is because of the colour casting. Any prints I keep are
> ordered from Ilford and this includes photos down to 5 x 7. I just want
> to do direct printing at home for the smaller format prints tha is 8 x
> 10 and sometimes less.
>
> I don't know how to make my question any simpler that someone may feel
> inclined to answer and guide me.
>
> Robert\ufffd
>
> On 07/01/2013 06:51, Robert Fletcher wrote:
>> Hello, for some reason my first post that are made at the beginning of
>> the month never showed up even though it came back to me as approved. So
>> I will try again.
>>
>> I am based in the UK, what I want to be able to do is to print
>> reasonable to good quality black-and-white prints. From what I have read
>> and tried to understand I would need an Epson printer. As a pensioner my
>> budget is limited. Can any members advise me on printers. I have been
>> looking at the Epson P 50 certainly within my budget.
>>
>> The next question comes about inks I am finding it very confusing as to
>> what inks I should purchase or even if the cartridges are available.
>>
>> I would really appreciate some help on this.
>>
>> Robert\ufffd
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-08 by Robert Fletcher

Thank you very much Paul and Mark for getting back to me. You have given 
me a lot of room for thought and one of the thoughts is should I take 
this a step further into more serious printing rather than using 
professional laboratories.

About a week ago I was thinking I would just go out and buy a printer 
buy a set of links put them in and away we go but after reading Paul's 
pages and reading Marx comments it's not quite plug and play is it?

No doubt you'll be hearing from me again in the near future.

Robert

Re: Getting started - What Printer

2013-01-09 by Dean Johnston

Hello Robert. 

> As I have had no responses so far to my question

I'm guessing that would be the message you posted (Pacific Standard Time) at 10:51 pm on Sunday January 6th, slightly less than 12 hours previous to your second message I quote from above, at Monday 7th (PST) at 10:14 a.m. 

A little patience perhaps...

Pax/
Dean

Digital BW, The Print

Getting started - What Printer

Getting started - What Printer

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

Re: [Digital BW] Getting started - What Printer

Re: Getting started - What Printer

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