Digital BW, The Print

Sorry for the OT, but I thought as a follow-on the B&W dyes success some might be curious. 

I've been collaborating with a color printer to explore taking the Epson-Noritsu (Claria type) dyes to a 17" printer.  We've taken our best printing shots with B&W and color pigment inksets (he uses the top Canon), and they just can't touch the look of the dyes on the metallic paper for eye-catching impact.  The pigs on the surface veil the image highlights, with gloss optimizer being even worse.

So, since I like large prints with lots of detail, I'm going to port the Noritsu dyes to wide format.  I think the Epson Claria/Noritsu dyes are a fairly unique technology, and wide format with them will be a unique approach not only in B&W but also color.  

(The "sun" really shines through the stained glass at St. Chapelle <http://www.paulroark.com/StChapelle-color.jpg> when dyes and the metallic paper are used.)

The next major hurtle is whether the easy profiling software that the color printer uses will be able to handle a dye in a driver (Epson 4000) that was never made with this in mind. 

It should be a fun project.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On 12/06/2012 02:41 AM, Paul wrote:

>
> The next major hurtle is whether the easy profiling software that the color printer uses will be able to handle a dye in a driver (Epson 4000) that was never made with this in mind.
>
> It should be a fun project.
>
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

The 4000 was of the 9600-7600 period, the last two existed in a dye 
version too. I think Epson had more difficulty to get the pigment 
profiles correct at that time so Atkinson got involved. But Atkinson 
made profiles for the dye type too. Given similar head technology I do 
not see why profiling Claria on the 4000 would be a problem. The goal 
would be Atkinson profile quality for the Claria :-) You got a grey ink 
less though.

http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?oid=14397&infoType=Downloads&platform=OSF_W_XP-64

BTW, there could still be Metal Silver inkjet film around (PET 
metalised) that is dye only compatible. It was never made for pigment 
ink for the reasons you observed too.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.

Ernest,

Do you know if the dyes used in the old Epson wide format printers was the
same as the Claria?  I rather guessed it was the old style 1280 class of
dyes.

I know dyes, in general, work in the 4000.  I had a B&W dye inkset in it
for some time with no problems at all.  One issue I have with the K2 ink
setup is whether to simply dilute the Noritsu K to make an LK or whether to
add color dyes as needed to make it more like the original K2 LK.  I'm
inclined to try the straight dilute Noritsu K first.  It's easier, does not
risk some incompatibility, and will cross over into the Noritsu K without
having a change in the hue complicate the profiling.

We'll see what happens.

Paul

On Thu, Dec 6, 2012 at 2:35 AM, Ernst Dinkla <e.dinkla@onsneteindhoven.nl>wrote:

> **
>
>
> On 12/06/2012 02:41 AM, Paul wrote:
>
> >
> > The next major hurtle is whether the easy profiling software that the
> color printer uses will be able to handle a dye in a driver (Epson 4000)
> that was never made with this in mind.
> >
> > It should be a fun project.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
>
> The 4000 was of the 9600-7600 period, the last two existed in a dye
> version too. I think Epson had more difficulty to get the pigment
> profiles correct at that time so Atkinson got involved. But Atkinson
> made profiles for the dye type too. Given similar head technology I do
> not see why profiling Claria on the 4000 would be a problem. The goal
> would be Atkinson profile quality for the Claria :-) You got a grey ink
> less though.
>
>
> http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/support/supDetail.jsp?oid=14397&infoType=Downloads&platform=OSF_W_XP-64
>
> BTW, there could still be Metal Silver inkjet film around (PET
> metalised) that is dye only compatible. It was never made for pigment
> ink for the reasons you observed too.
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla
>
> http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
> December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On 12/06/2012 04:53 PM, Paul Roark wrote:
> Ernest,
>
> Do you know if the dyes used in the old Epson wide format printers was the
> same as the Claria?  I rather guessed it was the old style 1280 class of
> dyes.
>
> I know dyes, in general, work in the 4000.  I had a B&W dye inkset in it
> for some time with no problems at all.  One issue I have with the K2 ink
> setup is whether to simply dilute the Noritsu K to make an LK or whether to
> add color dyes as needed to make it more like the original K2 LK.  I'm
> inclined to try the straight dilute Noritsu K first.  It's easier, does not
> risk some incompatibility, and will cross over into the Noritsu K without
> having a change in the hue complicate the profiling.
>
> We'll see what happens.
>
> Paul


The old version like available in the 1280 and the 10000 dye version 
too. So the one that created the magenta plague as the Cyan went belly 
up in the presence of ozone. I do not know how much they differ spectrally.

You know the best routes for mixing. I consider the above a stream of 
consciousness more than raising a question :-)


-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2012: 500+ inkjet media paper white spectral plots.