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question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-24 by Paul

I've been using this overlay on my 3MK R1800 prints as a last step in my workflow, it corrects the space to give a print closer to what you seen on the screen. It's called a Curve Layer file. Paul kindly made this available for us Elements people, since Elements doesn't include curves.

Since then, I've installed Grant's Tools in my PS Elements ver. 6 and one of the tools is Curves. I can add a bit of contrast with that... can I use that instead of the .tif Curve Layer file?

TIA!

Paul

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-25 by Paul Roark

If you can use normal Photoshop image adjustment curves on your copy or
Elements, then you can use the PS curve instead of the curves layer to have
QTR make a print that a matches a calibrated monitor better.  This assumes
you are editing the image in Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace.  The curve, which is
in many of my Profiles Zip files is also at
http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Gray
Gamma 2.2 to QTR curve.zip

Being a curve, you can modify it as needed to achieve the look you like or
match your monitor better.

Be sure you don't edit the image in Gray Gamma 2.2 after the curve is
applied.  It is for printing with QTR only.  I generally save my final 16
bit grayscale Tiff image file and then apply the curve and save that
version to my Desktop with "QTR" in the name so that I know the image is
for printing only.  I recycle that file after printing.

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com




On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I've been using this overlay on my 3MK R1800 prints as a last step in my
> workflow, it corrects the space to give a print closer to what you seen on
> the screen. It's called a Curve Layer file. Paul kindly made this available
> for us Elements people, since Elements doesn't include curves.
>
> Since then, I've installed Grant's Tools in my PS Elements ver. 6 and one
> of the tools is Curves. I can add a bit of contrast with that... can I use
> that instead of the .tif Curve Layer file?
>
> TIA!
>
> Paul
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-25 by Paul

Thanks, Paul, that's what I had hoped. I'd be curious to see what that curve layer in the GG-to-QTR.tif looks like... as it is I can't see it because of the instructional text on top. But maybe I can eyeball it. I really need to get my monitor calibrated.

I note that my Aardenburg submission, ID #144, is listed in that link... I'm pleased to see you are referencing it! Glad to be of service. My only regret is that I didn't at the same time submit my sample without the spray as well - but we've already discussed that a couple of months ago. I'm due for the 140 megalux-hour result any day now.

Thanks again,

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> If you can use normal Photoshop image adjustment curves on your copy or
> Elements, then you can use the PS curve instead of the curves layer to have
> QTR make a print that a matches a calibrated monitor better.  This assumes
> you are editing the image in Gray Gamma 2.2 workspace.  The curve, which is
> in many of my Profiles Zip files is also at
> http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Gray
> Gamma 2.2 to QTR curve.zip
> 
> Being a curve, you can modify it as needed to achieve the look you like or
> match your monitor better.
> 
> Be sure you don't edit the image in Gray Gamma 2.2 after the curve is
> applied.  It is for printing with QTR only.  I generally save my final 16
> bit grayscale Tiff image file and then apply the curve and save that
> version to my Desktop with "QTR" in the name so that I know the image is
> for printing only.  I recycle that file after printing.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > I've been using this overlay on my 3MK R1800 prints as a last step in my
> > workflow, it corrects the space to give a print closer to what you seen on
> > the screen. It's called a Curve Layer file. Paul kindly made this available
> > for us Elements people, since Elements doesn't include curves.
> >
> > Since then, I've installed Grant's Tools in my PS Elements ver. 6 and one
> > of the tools is Curves. I can add a bit of contrast with that... can I use
> > that instead of the .tif Curve Layer file?
> >
> > TIA!
> >
> > Paul
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-25 by Paul Roark

Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... I'd be curious to see what that curve layer in the GG-to-QTR.tif looks
> like... as it is I can't see it because of the instructional text on top.
>
I'm not sure what you mean here.  The layer is just the GG22-to-QTR.acv
curve pulled into a curves adjustment layer.  You can copy the layer onto a
blank, white background Tiff file,  then increase the canvas size and stick
a 21-step on the image.  Then when you activate and deactivate the curves
layer  you'll see what it does.  I assume you can see the graph of the
curve in whatever software you're using.  The curve is basically the
inverse of the toe compression that Gray Gamma 2.2 uses.

 Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-27 by Paul

Well, that's the problem... I can't see the curve, ie the .ACV file. I made the information text message invisible, clicking on the "eye". I was hoping to see the curve, but all I see is a kind of checkerboard.

Maybe I'd need to look at it in full Photoshop, not Elements. A friend of who has full PS is going to look at it for me.

Don't worry about it too much... I'll just use the Grants Tools curve plug-in as best I can... was just looking for a little comparison.

Thanks!

Paul



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > ... I'd be curious to see what that curve layer in the GG-to-QTR.tif looks
> > like... as it is I can't see it because of the instructional text on top.
> >
> I'm not sure what you mean here.  The layer is just the GG22-to-QTR.acv
> curve pulled into a curves adjustment layer.  You can copy the layer onto a
> blank, white background Tiff file,  then increase the canvas size and stick
> a 21-step on the image.  Then when you activate and deactivate the curves
> layer  you'll see what it does.  I assume you can see the graph of the
> curve in whatever software you're using.  The curve is basically the
> inverse of the toe compression that Gray Gamma 2.2 uses.
> 
>  Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-27 by Paul Roark

Paul,

I put a screen grab of the curve graph in http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Gray
Gamma 2.2 to QTR curve.zip

Hope this helps.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> ... problem... I can't see the curve, ie the .ACV file. ...
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-27 by Paul

That certainly did help, Paul, thanks very much.

Paul

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Paul Roark <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Paul,
> 
> I put a screen grab of the curve graph in http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Gray
> Gamma 2.2 to QTR curve.zip
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 6:31 AM, Paul <paulmwhiting@...> wrote:
> 
> > **
> >
> >
> > ... problem... I can't see the curve, ie the .ACV file. ...
> >
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-28 by Lutsky, Berel

Wanted to see the GG to QTR curve -- link provided isn't working (Sunday 11:00am central time )

Berel Lutsky
Associate Professor of Art
UW Manitowoc
920-683-4735

Re: [Digital BW] Re: question on the GG-to-QTR.tif Layer File

2012-10-28 by Paul Roark

Lutsky, Berel <berel.lutsky@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> Wanted to see the GG to QTR curve -- link provided isn't working (Sunday
> 11:00am central time )
>
> Berel Lutsky
> Associate Professor of Art
> UW Manitowoc
> 920-683-4735
>  _
>
>
Try this.

http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Gray Gamma 2.2 to QTR curve.zip

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Paul Roark's prints

2012-10-29 by Steve Kale

I just moved house and with everything going to new places I had the chance to look again - really look closely - at a print of Paul's that my wife bought me for our first wedding anniversary almost 5 years ago. Here's a link to the image http://paulroark.com/Cambria.html The level of detail and gradation even in the shadows of the print is simply stunning. My wife and I were debating  the position of two prints destined for our living room - one was Paul's and the other a print from David Brookover from Jackson WY which had been done on some sort of Photo black paper.  (At one stage I discussed with David what fine art paper he used but I don't recall now.  It certainly doesn't have the qualities of HPR Fine Art Baryta.)  It was somewhat painful to have the Brookover print in the same room because, despite being a fantastic image http://www.brookovergallery.com/_store/portfolio/bw/medium/ks002bw.jpg it just hadn't been printed to the same level of quality.  With each behind the same glass and with very similar framing, Paul's matt paper (HPR) print exuded deeper blacks, more depth and more detail. 

If you don't own one of Paul's prints, buy one - if only to see what a master printer (and photographer) can do with this medium.

Re: [Digital BW] Paul Roark's prints

2012-10-29 by Tina Manley

I agree.  Paul's prints will knock your socks off!

Tina

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 3:00 PM, Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> I just moved house and with everything going to new places I had the
> chance to look again - really look closely - at a print of Paul's that my
> wife bought me for our first wedding anniversary almost 5 years ago. Here's
> a link to the image http://paulroark.com/Cambria.html The level of detail
> and gradation even in the shadows of the print is simply stunning. My wife
> and I were debating the position of two prints destined for our living room
> - one was Paul's and the other a print from David Brookover from Jackson WY
> which had been done on some sort of Photo black paper. (At one stage I
> discussed with David what fine art paper he used but I don't recall now. It
> certainly doesn't have the qualities of HPR Fine Art Baryta.) It was
> somewhat painful to have the Brookover print in the same room because,
> despite being a fantastic image
> http://www.brookovergallery.com/_store/portfolio/bw/medium/ks002bw.jpg it
> just hadn't been printed to the same level of quality. With each behind the
> same glass and with very similar framing, Paul's matt paper (HPR) print
> exuded deeper blacks, more depth and more detail.
>
> If you don't own one of Paul's prints, buy one - if only to see what a
> master printer (and photographer) can do with this medium.
>  
>



-- 
Tina Manley, ASMP
www.tinamanley.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Paul Roark's prints

2012-10-30 by Paul

Thank you Steve and Tina.  I hope at least some of my prints lives up to your statements.

The comments raised a couple of issues for me.

Steve Kale <stevekale@...> wrote:
>
> ... The level of detail and gradation even in the shadows of the print is simply stunning.

I do, indeed, like detail-rich images.  I probably would have gone large format except that the Brooks Institute staff felt that given my backpacking, and need for loading film in changing bags in the wilderness, I'd go nuts with dirt and spots on the negatives.  This was before the ready-loads.  So, I went with medium format and the finest film I could find.  In general I have followed the standard that we humans can see 5 lp/mm at normal viewing distance and that 3 lp/mm will look sharp is a display print. Working from the print size back through the workflow to the image capture device allows one to fairly objectively analyse what is enough.  Medium format film was effectively the only way to do this with roll film.

I like to have everything sharp.  Thus the first medium format camera I bought after my market test show in 1981, where I got the Brooks feedback, was a Rollei SL66.  The SL66 was the only medium format camera with a tilt that would allow more control of the focus plane, effectively extending depth of field in many landscape situations.  The Cambria Surf shot utilized the SL66 tilt with the 150 mm Zeiss lens.  Digital tools allowed me later to move to rangefinders for better wide angle performance because I could then use multiple focus points and stack the images. 

While detail will not make a badly composed image look good, lack of enough detail will often make an otherwise good composition much less than it could have been.  A painter friend makes outstanding wine bottle labels, but her wall display prints look way better on the internet than in person.  Some of my images make very nice cards, but I don't enlarge them further.

With respect to the gradation, from just a technical point of view, I don't do anything special. I always have tried to use all the dynamic range the medium has -- from paper white to good dmax.  But,I think most of us use the "levels" tools to do that.  

> ... Paul's matt paper (HPR) print exuded deeper blacks, ...


We B&W types really obsess about our dmax.  I think, however, it ends up being something where what is needed varies a lot with the display conditions.  HPR has a great dmax.  Epson Hot Press Natural is another paper that does almost as well.  Arches Hot Press has a dmax that is less, but on the wall in normal lighting even B&W prints comment on the good dmax.  Here, once you have "enough" for the circumstances, it's the image and how its printed that makes the main difference. 

With respect to what it is about an image that gives the feeling of depth of gradation, or whatever the image conveys, the difficulties of analyzing and describing them become much more difficult. Yesterday I was in an artists' meeting where the subject was the language of art criticism.  My gut reaction to most is that it's governed by the old saying, "If you can't blind them with brilliance, baffle them with BS."  On the other hand, on a less cynical note, much of the issue comes down to our "linear" written language being inadequate to describe or "translate" a medium of visual communication. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

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