Synth-DIY Yahoo! Groups Archives

Thread

Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by sethrus

I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.

Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The other has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.

What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can get a fairly decent scan.

It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage, that is why it is important.

I want to try the least destructive first.

Thanks to anyone with experience in this.

Seth

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by pdesmidt tds.net

I would scan it before trying to clean off the mold.  Cleaning it might
damage it more than it already is.  After you have a good scan, you could
then contact of film preservationist to see what they recommend for
cleaning, or perhaps to have them undertake the task.  If the cleaning is
effect, then you can make another scan.

On Sat, Sep 1, 2012 at 7:31 PM, sethrus <seth@msrphoto.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.
>
> Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a
> patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The
> other has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.
>
> What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can
> get a fairly decent scan.
>
> It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage, that
> is why it is important.
>
> I want to try the least destructive first.
>
> Thanks to anyone with experience in this.
>
> Seth
>
>  
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by Louis de Stoutz

You could also try your luck at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photoconservation/
There are knowledgeable people there and the list activity is rather 
low, so you probably will be heard.

Louis

Show quoted textHide quoted text

On 02/09/2012 02:31, sethrus wrote:
> I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.
>
> Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The other has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.
>
> What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can get a fairly decent scan.
>
> It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage, that is why it is important.
>
> I want to try the least destructive first.
>
> Thanks to anyone with experience in this.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
>
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
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> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by Ernst Dinkla

On 09/02/2012 02:31 AM, sethrus wrote:
> I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.
>
> Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a
> patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The
> other has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.
>
> What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can
> get a fairly decent scan.
>
> It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage,
> that is why it is important.
>
> I want to try the least destructive first.
>
> Thanks to anyone with experience in this.
>
> Seth

Scan first and keep at least a RAW or RGB scan of the negative, if 
possible an Infrared channel too. Quite often with a color filter you 
can squeeze out more information on that kind of damages. Then what the 
other messages recommend and after that the same scan process. Wet 
mounting may reduce wrinkles and scratches but I doubt it is wise with 
the mold still on the negative. You could check whether the mold gets 
more transparent with a droplet of lighter fluid on it. On the other 
hand air gets easily trapped at places where the surface is rougher.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

Dinkla Grafische Techniek
Quad, pi\ufffdzografie, gicl\ufffde
www.pigment-print.com

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by jimbo

Hi Seth,
My first suggestion would be to take the film to a preservationist.. (Check with a good museum in your area).. Initially you need to know a few things.... if the mold has gotten into the emulsion or if your lucky and it's on the surface.. First step is to make the best scans you can of the film ...dry ..no wet scans.. Their are special tack rollers that are used that can lift small amounts of the mold surface if the roller pressure is adequate..and the mold cooperates. If you do this yourself the only solution that you should use with the intent of removing the mold is isopropyl alcohol 98% or better... not rubbing alcohol or similar as it has too much water in it.. (Mold will absorb water but not the alcohol) .. Their may me some new special cleaner fluids out their today for this.. if so I don't know what they are... I worked with a preservationist some years ago on a collection and I remember the "lecture" from the preservationist and the info from Kodak.. Ok if you take it on .. we used Kodak Photo Chamois.. and wore gloves not rubber gloves.. As we worked the mold and could see that we made some headway.. we would rescan the neg.. to hopefully improve the quality of the information.. I remember a particular 4x5 that I must have scanned 10 times.. If your emulsion is actually damaged then you will never get back to a good neg.. the trick is to just go slow and improve the scan quality on the way to the end result what ever that is.
Again if they are truly special .. take them to some one that does it.. This is a not the right place to learn how to clean or save a piece of film..

jimbo

Show quoted textHide quoted text

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: sethrus 
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2012 6:31 PM
  Subject: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

  I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.

  Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The other has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.

  What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can get a fairly decent scan.

  It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage, that is why it is important.

  I want to try the least destructive first.

  Thanks to anyone with experience in this.

  Seth

  No virus found in this message.
  Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
  Version: 2012.0.2197 / Virus Database: 2437/5240 - Release Date: 09/01/12

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-02 by Seth Rossman

Thanks Jimbo-

Actually, I used to run the photo operation at the Indiana Historical 
Society.  I had this issue with glass plates, etc.

Fortunately, I had one of the best photo conservators in the country 
working there, so it was her job.  She took a job in Kansas a long time 
ago or she'd be my prime source.

I've done what Ernst and others said and made a preliminary (insurance) 
scan.  Although there are those (around the internet) saying to blow the 
mold off first, one thing I learned is that you don't want to spread it 
through the room.

I made several different hi-rez scans.  Vuescan is so versatile!!  I 
went through both RGBI and 16-bit grayscale.  I set it for multiple 
passes and a final output of 12x17 (the file is huge!!)

The RGBI gave me a couple of options:  Usually, the green channel is 
sharper.  And, I have an infrared channel to look at.

Speaking of infrared, I was surprised.  I did a 16-bit gray scan with 
infrared clean on.  It did nothing noticeable.  But, a plain B&W scan 
(still max rez) using the infrared channel cleaned up a ton of stuff!!  
This will probably be the one I use, if it doesn't clean up.  There ARE 
a bunch of black dots in that area which tells me the mold has gone 
through the emulsion.  Thank goodness for PS touch ups.

I then went to Edwal film cleaner (100% Isopropyl) which hardly did 
much.  Several swipes came off with a reddish brown color though, so I 
know I got some of the mold.

Right now the neg is getting a 3-pass RGBI scan which I will follow with 
the 16 bit IR channel again.

What is REALLY amazing is the lack of artifacts from the creases and 
dings in the one neg (mold free).  If I hadn't seen them I wouldn't know 
they were there.

After this next set of scans I am going for a 70-deg F 15 min wash in 
distilled water and Photo-Flo; then a final scan.

Thank you to all that advised.  I'll let you know.

RE: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-03 by E.Neilsen

I have a conservationist just down the hall. I'll try and remember what site
we went to before. There is a solution to use, but I forget what it is. 

Eric Neilsen
Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
 
www.ericneilsenphotography.com
skype me with ejprinter
Let's Talk Photography

Show quoted textHide quoted text

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Louis de
Stoutz
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2012 4:39 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

You could also try your luck at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/photoconservation/
There are knowledgeable people there and the list activity is rather 
low, so you probably will be heard.

Louis


On 02/09/2012 02:31, sethrus wrote:
> I JUST ran across a VERY important 2-neg strip of 6x6 Tri-X taken in 1972.
>
> Although it is in a sleeve (and not stuck to it, thank you!) I notice a
patch of mold about the size of a dime near one edge of one frame. The other
has wrinkles, but I can deal with that.
>
> What is the best way to remove--or at least minimize-- the mold so I can
get a fairly decent scan.
>
> It is something I shot of Johnny Cash and June Carter Cash backstage, that
is why it is important.
>
> I want to try the least destructive first.
>
> Thanks to anyone with experience in this.
>
> Seth
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


------------------------------------

Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

2012-09-03 by Tony Sleep

On 02/09/2012 Seth Rossman wrote:
> I've done what Ernst and others said and made a preliminary 
> (insurance)
> scan. Although there are those (around the internet) saying to blow 
> the
> mold off first, one thing I learned is that you don't want to spread 
> it
> through the room.
> 

If you can blow it off, it isn't mould, which gets right into the gelatine 
and eats it.

If the solution you are thinking of is Tetenal Repolisan, don't bother 
with that. It's great for dealing with scratches and scuffs that haven't 
scraped away lumps of image but I've found no way to deal with mould 
damage on emulsion. What's gone is gone, replaced by nasty filaments. 
Hours of reconstructive retouching are the only way, and you really need 
to be an artist at the micro level :(

-- 
Regards

Tony Sleep
http://tonysleep.co.uk

Digital BW, The Print

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Damaged Tri-X neg

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Re: [Digital BW] Damaged Tri-X neg

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