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Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by Paul

Is there any method to apply one ICC to one part of an image file and another one to another part?

The usual workflow applies the ICC to the entire file.

I tried a software package that allows a print to file, but the resolution & quality is too low.

Any ideas?

The purpose is so that I can apply an ICC made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB to the main B&W image, but have the border printed with only yellow to control the bright paper borders.  Right now I'm using PS curves as the profiles, but it's a lot easier to use them if an ICC has linearized the profile (as opposed to me doing so manually).

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by E.Neilsen

I would use Q Image and add a border to the print using the software and not
try that ICC approach. Q Image is ONLY PC based answer. One might also try
it with LR. I haven't checked yet, but I am thiking adding a border is a
possibility there too.  
 
Eric Neilsen
Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
 
www.ericneilsenphotography.com
skype me with ejprinter
Let's Talk Photography
 
  _____  
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From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 12:21 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?
 
  
Is there any method to apply one ICC to one part of an image file and
another one to another part?

The usual workflow applies the ICC to the entire file.

I tried a software package that allows a print to file, but the resolution &
quality is too low.

Any ideas?

The purpose is so that I can apply an ICC made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB to
the main B&W image, but have the border printed with only yellow to control
the bright paper borders. Right now I'm using PS curves as the profiles, but
it's a lot easier to use them if an ICC has linearized the profile (as
opposed to me doing so manually).

Thanks,

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by C D Tobie

On Mar 15, 2012, at 1:20 PM, Paul wrote:

> Is there any method to apply one ICC to one part of an image file and another one to another part?

If you use InDesign or another color managed page layout app, you can select different ICC profiles for different images. You would have to lay it out in ID, not import it as one image file, or the same profile would be applied to the entire image.

C. David Tobie
Global Product Technology Manager


Datacolor
5 Princess Road
Lawrenceville, NJ 08648, USA
609.924.2189
www.datacolor.com

Phone: 207.685.9248
Mobile: 207.312.0448
Fax: 207.685.4455
Email:  cdtobie@...
Skype: cdtobie



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by Seth Rossman

In PS.  Get your print ready, create your light yellow and "brush the 
whole border on into the print area. Do it in one pass with a large 
brush.  Outline the print area with the rectangular marquess tool 
(easier if you bring guides to the very edes at 100-200% and set Snap to 
Guides).  Use the history brush and wipe the whole area.  Only the part 
inside the marquee will revert.

Second thought, it may be easier to "paint" it using Photo Filter if you 
can get the color you want. then the marquee, history brush.

Third option, create a larger New File and tint it.  Then Copy and Paste 
the B&W.

Seth


On 3/15/2012 1:20 PM, Paul wrote:
>
> Is there any method to apply one ICC to one part of an image file and 
> another one to another part?
>
> The usual workflow applies the ICC to the entire file.
>
> I tried a software package that allows a print to file, but the 
> resolution & quality is too low.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> The purpose is so that I can apply an ICC made with QTR's Create 
> ICC-RGB to the main B&W image, but have the border printed with only 
> yellow to control the bright paper borders. Right now I'm using PS 
> curves as the profiles, but it's a lot easier to use them if an ICC 
> has linearized the profile (as opposed to me doing so manually). 
> ~-|**|PrettyHtmlEnd|**|-~ end group email -->
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by Ernst Dinkla

On 03/15/2012 06:40 PM, E.Neilsen wrote:
> I would use Q Image and add a border to the print using the software and not
> try that ICC approach. Q Image is ONLY PC based answer. One might also try
> it with LR. I haven't checked yet, but I am thiking adding a border is a
> possibility there too.
>
> Eric Neilsen
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226

Qimage Ultimate allows colored borders, any color and any size. It also 
allows different profiles or renderings per image with more images on 
one print page and I think it is possible to shift one image over the 
other manually on the print page but it would be a weird approach.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Re: Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by dlruckus

Hi Paul.It's a cluge but why not apply your print profile to an image copy then apply your border profile to another copy and combine copies via whatever selection method you choose. Then simply output the file direct to printer with no other color management eg: as you would for a profile chart or through a non color managed application.
I would think that using blend modes in Pshop could do this using  generic full sheet paper specific images while allowing full control of tonal placement.

Regards,
Duane


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <roark.paul@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Is there any method to apply one ICC to one part of an image file and another one to another part?
> 
> The usual workflow applies the ICC to the entire file.
> 
> I tried a software package that allows a print to file, but the resolution & quality is too low.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> The purpose is so that I can apply an ICC made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB to the main B&W image, but have the border printed with only yellow to control the bright paper borders.  Right now I'm using PS curves as the profiles, but it's a lot easier to use them if an ICC has linearized the profile (as opposed to me doing so manually).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
>

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by Paul

It's easy to use a non-ICC method  to put borders on the images, but the ICCs make linearization of the PS curve profile much easier.  Thus I had hoped to find a way to use the ICC for the image and not the border. It turns out to be not so simple, at least with just Photoshop.

I too was thinking Qimage may be the answer, but I could not tell for their web page whether it would  work.

Ernst, you noted that
> Qimage Ultimate allows colored borders, any color and any size.

The problem is that the ICC for the B&W image is  not appropriate for the border.

> It also allows different profiles or renderings per image with 
> more images on one print page 

That was what I was hoping for.  

The ICCs (made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB) work well for printing, but if I use Edit>convert to profile or Assign profile, that does not work.  So, how does Qimage apply the profile? Would it be in a way similar to the when Photoshop manages and  colors  in printing?

> and I think it is possible to shift one image over the 
> other manually on the print page but it would be a weird approach.


I thought I might need to have separate images and abut them, but it  is  a rather clunky workflow.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-15 by Paul

C D Tobie <CDTobie@...> wrote:
>

> If you use InDesign or another color managed page layout app, you can select different ICC profiles for different images. You would have to lay it out in ID, not import it as one image file, or the same profile would be applied to the entire image.


That sounds like about the same  thing I was  assuming I'd  have to do in Qimage.  Again, I wonder if applying the ICC works like the PS printing workflow as opposed  to converting to that profile.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-16 by Ernst Dinkla

On 03/15/2012 10:59 PM, Paul wrote:

> Ernst, you noted that
>  > Qimage Ultimate allows colored borders, any color and any size.
>
> The problem is that the ICC for the B&W image is not appropriate for the
> border.

I once discussed that with Mike, and it is correct that the border is 
not getting the ICC treatment the image gets. Asked that I think in 
relation with the gloss enhancer of the Z3100 and my method of giving 
the RGB 255, 255, 255 areas in the picture a slight shift so they will 
get GE too in the GE economy mode of the HP driver.

>  > It also allows different profiles or renderings per image with
>  > more images on one print page
>
> That was what I was hoping for.
>
> The ICCs (made with QTR's Create ICC-RGB) work well for printing, but if
> I use Edit>convert to profile or Assign profile, that does not work. So,
> how does Qimage apply the profile? Would it be in a way similar to the
> when Photoshop manages and colors in printing?

I can not try out a workflow to a custom B&W inkset on an Epson here. It 
is also a pity that QTR does not exist as a nomal Windows printer driver 
that I could use directly from Qimage, off-topic but my pet QTR topic :-)

More theoretically, if you can drive the custom B&W Epson printer with 
the Epson driver, the last set on color and set on "Let application 
control CM" or "CM-Off" and Qimage's CM-On and use the QTR created 
ICC-RGB profiles there for individual images on the print page you 
should get the same results as that workflow gives in Photoshop. On the 
fly, no need to create a larger image with more images nested. It is 
something I considered for printing different B&W toned images on one 
print page with one customised B&W inkset. HP B9180 in mind with a small 
gamut mix or the inkset that comes close like the one you developed last 
month.

PS can not have more than one image on the printpage at that stage, it 
could prepare a page like that but then you would need to do some P2P 
conversions with the QTR profiles and assemble an image+border (or is it 
possible to do P2P on selected areas, reverse the selection in between 
the two profiles?) and then assign a profile to the image that will go 
through a print CM path that does not alter the numbers anymore (so no 
CM in effect after the P2Ps). If selected areas + P2P works, you could 
make an action like that, for example cannibalise the plain canvas wrap 
from my set of canvas wraps and add P2P steps on reversed selections and 
assign the color space for the CM-Off path. On Macs the last needs more 
attention.

I can try out the overlay of images in Qimage, I did see that effect 
when I once misused print page nesting for lay-out work. There is also 
the "Print to File" feature in Qimage that allows the use of printer 
profiles in that step and you can judge what is altered in the RGB 
numbers of the resulting Tiff. Better feed a neutral RGB image then. 
Qimage does not know a Greyscale image, it converts Greyscale to RGB 
right away and what it sends to the driver will always be an RGB bitmap.

>
>  > and I think it is possible to shift one image over the
>  > other manually on the print page but it would be a weird approach.
>
> I thought I might need to have separate images and abut them, but it is
> a rather clunky workflow.

Well you always surprised me with mind boggling methods and they did work.


-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-16 by Ernst Dinkla

On 03/16/2012 10:11 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> PS can not have more than one image on the printpage at that stage, it
> could prepare a page like that but then you would need to do some P2P
> conversions with the QTR profiles and assemble an image+border (or is it
> possible to do P2P on selected areas, reverse the selection in between
> the two profiles?) and then assign a profile to the image that will go
> through a print CM path that does not alter the numbers anymore (so no
> CM in effect after the P2Ps). If selected areas + P2P works, you could
> make an action like that, for example cannibalise the plain canvas wrap
> from my set of canvas wraps and add P2P steps on reversed selections and
> assign the color space for the CM-Off path. On Macs the last needs more
> attention.

One minute in PS and I would not have written that part.
Curves could do the job though.
P2Ps and stacking images too.

-- 
Met vriendelijke groeten,   Ernst

Shareware now:
Dinkla Gallery Canvas Wrap Actions for Photoshop

http://www.pigment-print.com/dinklacanvaswraps/index.htm

|      Dinkla Grafische Techniek      |
|         www.pigment-print.com        |
|                 ( unvollendet )                 |

Re: [Digital BW] Multiple ICCs applied to one file by selection area?

2012-03-16 by Ernst Dinkla

On 03/16/2012 10:11 AM, Ernst Dinkla wrote:

> More theoretically, if you can drive the custom B&W Epson printer with
> the Epson driver, the last set on color and set on "Let application
> control CM" or "CM-Off" and Qimage's CM-On and use the QTR created
> ICC-RGB profiles there for individual images on the print page you
> should get the same results as that workflow gives in Photoshop. On the
> fly, no need to create a larger image with more images nested. It is
> something I considered for printing different B&W toned images on one
> print page with one customised B&W inkset. HP B9180 in mind with a small
> gamut mix or the inkset that comes close like the one you developed last
> month.

> I can try out the overlay of images in Qimage, I did see that effect
> when I once misused print page nesting for lay-out work. There is also
> the "Print to File" feature in Qimage that allows the use of printer
> profiles in that step and you can judge what is altered in the RGB
> numbers of the resulting Tiff. Better feed a neutral RGB image then.
> Qimage does not know a Greyscale image, it converts Greyscale to RGB
> right away and what it sends to the driver will always be an RGB bitmap.

In Qimage Ultimate I can put two images on one print page (make sure 
both have enough space to fit on that print page), lay the last loaded 
on top of the other and give them different ICC printer profiles 
including QTR ones and print the total. That worked at least in Print to 
File mode but I do not see why it wouldn't in a normal print job. 
Practical issue may be that you need a larger print page to load the 
images but like to have a smaller one for the print.

For practice I would think it is easier to check with Print to File what 
a QTR RGB profile does to a certain color in Qimage and select a Qimage 
border color with the same RGB values.


met vriendelijke groeten, Ernst

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