Digital BW, The Print

Tom,

Yup, I agree re: platinum. In fact I doubt it can hit 1.5 routinely. 
But I see what you mean, precisely because I HAVE seen, held a 
platinium print, which, to me is data. How would I convince someone 
else of the the gorgeous quality of a Pt print? Show him/her one.

Shilesh


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker 
<tbaker1328@s...> wrote:
>
> Shilesh  -
>    
>   Go measure a really great platinum print. They're beautiful, and 
probably won't reach 1.7.
>    
>   And, anyway, opinion=subjectivity=what is good art.
>    
>   Tom Baker
> 
> Shilesh Jani <shileshjani@b...> wrote:
>   Tom,
> 
> If I was trying not to be impudent with Tyler, I am trying not to 
be 
> argumentative with you. But really, if you I are head-to-head, each 
> looking at prints A and B with different Dmax, and each agree to 
> the "black deep enough to fall into", then sure you are right.
> 
> But can you communicate that to me in cyber-space? I have no idea 
> what your or Tyler's idea of "deep" is. Give me a number or send me 
a 
> print. At which point the "print IS the datum, and it IS king"
> 
> Excuse my pedantic state of mind. I am an engineer and have no 
> patience for opinion, other than it being a spark that sends me 
into 
> the lab.
> 
> Shilesh 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Tom Baker 
> <tbaker1328@s...> wrote:
> >
> > Shilesh   -
> >    
> >   "Data" is not king.  The image is king.
> >    
> >   Tom Baker
> > 
> > Shilesh Jani <shileshjani@b...> wrote:
> >   Tyler wrote:
> > 
> > > The point to me was it's not the numbers... it's the visual 
> impact.
> > > It's not a big number black, it's a gorgeous velvety black you 
can
> > > fall into.
> > 
> > Sounds like religion; "get-by on faith, my faith" and so on. You 
> can 
> > fall a lot deeper into a Dmax 2.0 hole than a Dmax 1.7 hole - oh, 
> don't 
> > belive the numbers, just trust me because my head has a bigger 
bump 
> > falling in the former.
> > 
> > I don't mean to be impudent, but what is the point to the 
original 
> post 
> > unless you give the readers some point of objective reference, 
> i.e., 
> > measured density. Bill Atkinson is proabably a great guy, but I 
> hazard 
> > a guess that his reputation is built not by "Bill-Speak" but with 
> real 
> > data - his printer profiles. Let's all remember: "data is king."
> > 
> > Regards.
> > 
> > Shilesh
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages 
> to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
> in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
> THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
> SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
> SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
> LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR 
OTHER 
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO 
OR 
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
CONDUCT 
> OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR 
(iv) 
> ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >     
> > ---------------------------------
> >   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> > 
> >     
> >     Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
> >     
> >     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     
> >     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service. 
> > 
> >     
> > ---------------------------------
> >   
> > 
> >   
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT 
THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, 
SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT 
LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) 
ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> 
> 
>     
> ---------------------------------
>   YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 
> 
>     
>     Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint" on the web.
>     
>     To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>  DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>     
>     Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service. 
> 
>     
> ---------------------------------
>   
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>