Digital BW, The Print

Hello Tyler,

>Clayton, I haven't tried it. 

Oh too bad, I was hoping you might have some info about it.


>Frankly I think we part ways with our preferences here. 

Please understand I am really not interested in whether anyone agrees
with me or has the same preferences.  I hope this thread has not given
that impression.  I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about what
they like.  I started this whole thing by expressing an observation
and opinion with the thought that it might be helpful for anyone
considering one of these printers.  I've been amazed and frustrated
because people's responses seem to indicate a complete
misunderstanding or misinterpretation of my words.  People continue to
react to only one part of it, and (I'm sorry to say) you have just
done it again.  My repeated posts on this are simply attempts to
clarify misunderstanding.  


>However, dead neutral may not appeal to me either. Most of my 
>favorite prints by any number of people made numerous traditional 
>ways have a hint of hue, or hue variation...

I am amazed by this statement because I just earlier in this thread
re-explained this exact point (for the 4th time) to someone else who
seemed to have gotten fixated on the word 'neutral'.  Maybe this word
triggers some sort of subconscious emotional reaction and the mind
shuts off and nothing else registers.  I have tried hard to explain my
point as clearly as I can, yet every time someone thinks I'm pushing
neutral prints on everyone.

-----------------------------------------------------
So, here we go, one more (hopefully last) time:

1) I am not in any way shape or form suggesting that neutral prints 
are what everything should be.  I was just using that as an example. 
I also used sepia as an example.

2) The main point is that when color inks are used to emulate any kind
of tone, from neutral to sepia, selenium toned Gallerie or whatever,
the various hues of the inks, however subtle, can be seen.  To me it's
just not convincing, I don't like it.  

3) If someone doesn't mind that it's fine with me and I don't want to
change their mind.  

4) I think I'm sensitive to the colors because I've been using BO for
several years and am used to seeing its pure tones, neutral through
warm (pure meaning without any color inks).  

5) I'm making a point of this because I think anyone coming into
digital BW printing should be aware of the issue.  Especially because
K3 uses yellow, which good RIPS and toned inks avoid (potential
longevity issues).  If they choose to go this route fine, but let it
be a conscious decision.  

6) Readers, please do not infer from my remarks that I like only
neutral prints.   I do like them, but I also like warm sometimes.  I
keep 6 or more papers on hand, which render Eboni BO in tones ranging
from neutral to very warm.  After I work up an image on EEM proof
paper I print it on these other papers to determine which it looks
best on.  My final prints span the range.
--------------------------------------------------------

Back to Tyler

>Also, since I print for others, I can't jump ship too quickly on
>inksets I use.

Understood.


>I have it from a trusted friend and expert printer, who beta tested 
>them, that they are very impressive. But they are neutral, 

Does your friend know how the neutrality was achieved?  IOW, is there
color toner in them?


>...neutral,...so I might not like them as much, and you may love 
>them <G>.

(Again, I don't necessarily like everything neutral.)  What I got from
the announcement was that because they are neutral they require
various papers to achieve different tones, just as with Eboni BO.  But
I'm not sure what they mean by a neutral ink.  You can't call Eboni
neutral or warm, it depends what paper it's on.  On Kayenta it's
neutral.  On Wm Turner it's extremely warm.  So I wonder what they
mean.  If it prints neutral on PR then it's cooler than Eboni (which
is medium warm on PR).  I saw somewhere that research is being done
with white pigments, to be mixed with black to get grays.  I wonder if
K7 is done that way...Can you get any light on this from your friend?
 Thanks.


Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm