Digital BW, The Print

Earlier today I drove by a startlingly black new car. Beautiful. 

What made it so incredibly black looking? 

It was the contrast between the specular highlights (including the
chrome) and the areas that actually appeared black. 

In other words, my visual definition of "black" has to do with extreme
contrast, which has to do with specular reflection. It's not primarily
a matter of how much light is absorbed. 

Matte Black looks blacker on Epson Enhanced Matte than it does on
watercolor papers...it's because of the brightened white, not because
of the black. Black would measure virtually the same on each paper.

This was essentially Greg Gorman's point (online interview). He still
awaits a paper that looks air-dried glossy fiber, hates the resin
coated look that we have now. He's content with the Dmax of current
pigments.

Djon



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dlruckus"
<dlruckus@y...> wrote:
> Considering that the past successful "coating" experiments discussed
> here also vastly improved the visual and, reportedly, measured d'max
> on matt papers it seems obvious that embedding the pigments into a
> clear coat does the same thing you are refering to with glossy papers.
> 
> As far as the ink itself goes it's not difficult at all to measure
> their relative opacities and opacity "is" density by definition.
> 
> The more interesting question would be just how does the "Photo" ink
> differ from the matt variety and is it absorbed into the coating on
> glossy or is it just in a clear medium that remains when the ink is
> dry? It has been reported that the Photo black d'max when used on matt
> papers suffers drastically. Having such a clear medium absorbed away
> into microporous papers could explain that loss.
> 
> Silver gelatine photo papers have precisely the same visual
> characteristics glossy vs matt that you are talking about. There
> doesn't need to be any difference in adsorbtion characteristics of the
> actual pigment itself to get the same difference in look. The
> reflection characteristics themselves can explain all of it. It isn't
> it's absorbtion of light that makes it look darker, it's simply
> because it "is" darker eg: the impinging light has been reflected away
> and is not visible to the eye.
> 
> Having said all this doesn't answer your desire to measure the actual
> adsorbtions of the two types of ink/papers without reflective
> interference. If you ever manage to do it let us know the results.
> 
> Regards
> Duane
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > 
> > When, under diffuse lighting, I look at a sheet of matte black ink
> on matte
> > paper next to a sheet of photo black ink on "photo" paper, the
> latter simply
> > looks more black - despite your "valleys and hills" argument.  As a
> result,
> > I conclude that the photo ink/paper combo is better at absorbing light
> > (ignoring specular highlights for the moment - see below) and that the
> > measured dMax difference we observe between matte and photo is
> largely real
> > despite the argument that the matte paper is likely to reflect a
> little more
> > light back to a 0/45 degree sensor because of its more diffuse
> reflection.
> > The issue with photo paper is that it is more prone to specular
> reflection.
> > This is a big DISadvantage.  I am sure that if photo only produced
> the same
> > black (visual or measured) as matte then matte would rule the day. 
> I would
> > argue that matte paper has been the choice du jour for inkjet only
> because
> > of issues such as "bronzing" and "differential gloss".  These have
> largely
> > been dealt with by the new K3 inks.  The next step is a paper with a
> finish
> > more closely resembling the air dried fibre print.  Personally I
> like the
> > finish of matte papers and if one could achieve a photo dMax on
> matte then I
> > would do all matte.   I suspect though that that day is still a wee
> way off.
> > Photo ink/paper just took a massive leap forward.  I don't see such
> gains in
> > matte ink/paper.