Frank,
For some reason I didn't receive your post. I saw it only indirectly in
Martin's.
I don't mean to say that the 3000 is equal to the 1160 for Piezo work. The
Piezo list is full of horror stories about the 3000 and the Piezo driver.
Additionally, my comments are limited to Archival Matte being fed in through
the front so that there is better contact with the roller. The 3000 and
thick paper also seem to be an invitation to trouble.
Additionally, the 1160's smaller dots with the Epson driver are a clear
advantage for that machine, at least in theory and on test strips. However,
for large prints, I can't see any dots that are attributable to the 3000.
For postcards I'll continue to use my 1160.
So, the limit of my comment about 3000 being "better" than the 1160 is that
with my particular samples of these machines, when both use the Epson driver
and the 3000 is fed from the front with Archival Matte, my 3000 seems to be
less inclined to band than my 1160. For Piezo work I'd still probably not
even bother with the 3000.
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: mwesley250@... [mailto:mwesley250@...]
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2001 11:15 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Greetings -- 7000 (& 3000)
Frank,
About a week back Ron Landucci (Post #79) said essentially the same
thing. He reported that he really couldn't see any difference between
the desktop printers output and the 7000 under standard viewing
conditions.
Martin
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., frank@c... wrote:
> Hi Paul, It's good to find you on this list. I wanted to tell you
> about my friend's switch from 3000 to 7000. His prints are great,
but
> when I compare the same file on each printer side by side (cone
> system), I'm hard pressed to say the 7000 is significantly better.
> Through a loup it looks tighter, but that 3000 has held it's own
over
> the years.
>
> Incidently, I just bought an 1160 and have not set it up yet for
Piezo,
> but I was disappointed to hear that you think the 3000 is superior.
I
> thought I was buying "state of the art" for Piezo work. The 3000
must
> have the longest production run of any Epson printer.
>
> Frank
> http://www.culturalvsions.com
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "Paul Roark" <
> paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > Todd,
> >
> > I have not seen any direct, objective comparisons between the
7000 and the
> > smaller-dot Epsons to know whether there is a visible
difference. The
> > prints and test strips I've seen from the 7000 using the Epson
driver are
> > excellent, so I assume it will be visually equal to the others and
> > presumably better than the alternative for large prints -- the
3000. (I
> > assume no one would buy either of these unless you want to do
large prints.
> > For me, the 16x20 has always been my target size, so I now have a
3000 as
> > well as an 1160.)
> >
> > I don't know how the dot sizes of the 3000 and 7000 compare, but
I assume
> > the 7000 is smaller. Additionally, the 7000 with the variable-
tone inkset
> > will be a true hextone -- which does make a small difference;
more shades of
> > ink allow for smoother outputs. (Note that the Piezo 7000
inkset is really
> > just a quad -- 4 total shades, not 6. The nozzle checks with
Piezo ink
> > indicate that the light/photo shade inks are the same densities
as the
> > others. That is, the magenta and light/photo magenta are the
same.)
> >
> > As good as I expect the 7000 to be, I want to add that I've been
pleasantly
> > surprised at the high quality of the 3000 output. That printer
has large
> > dots and a bad reputation for paper handling and banding
(especially with
> > the Piezo driver). In test strips using the variable-tone inkset
I can see
> > some graininess, but in 16x20s, I don't see any evidence of it.
My medium
> > format Tmax 100 negatives appear to be the limiting factors, not
the 3000's
> > dots. Using Archival Matte fed from the front, the printer feeds
perfectly
> > and has no banding. (I think it is actually better than my
1160.) (I have
> > a pre-release 24" roll of Archival Matte. It'll be released next
month by
> > Epson.)
> >
> > You'll notice that for the 3000 I have two "NC" (neutral-cool)
curves. What
> > I found is that different curves produce dots at different
places. Contrary
> > to my expectations, the dots are not visible in the highlights
(where the
> > Epson ink in the 3000 shows bad dots). Rather, the dots show up
in the
> > midtones or dark tones. On most of the curves, the dots are so
mild as to
> > be irrelevant. With the NC curves, however, I decided to make
two versions
> > so that if the dots do show in a print, the other curve can be
used and the
> > dots may then be in a place where they will not show.
> >
> > So, to get back to the 7000, I expect it will be a great printer
with the
> > variable-tone inkset. However, if one can't afford the 7000, and
if you can
> > live with paper thin enough to feed from the front, I would not
hesitate to
> > buy a 3000. For 16x20s it is the cheap way to go, and my 16x20
Archival
> > Matte prints look great. (I may need to remove a pizza wheel,
but I haven't
> > bothered yet.)
> >
> > Paul
> > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Todd Flashner [mailto:tflash@e...]
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2001 10:20 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Greetings
> >
> >
> > Welcome back Paul. Alaska Huh? Lucky boy.
> >
> > Looks like MIS is up to good things.
> >
> > Question: with Piezo, the 7000 seems to be the top of the line
from a
> > quality-output point of view (as well as everything else too, I
suppose) -
> > is that true with your variable-tone method too, or with it's
larger
> > droplet
> > size than some of the smaller printers, does the 7000's output
suffer
> > relative to them?
> >
> > Todd
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I'm back, and glad to see that there is a new and independent
forum for
> > > discussing B&W printing technologies. The Piezo forum has
lots of
> > > knowledgeable people, but it's really only for Piezo inks.
The
> > Epson-inkjet
> > > forum is also very useful, but I'm really just into B&W, and
most of the
> > > discussions there are not that relevant.
> > >
> > > How does this forum compare to the DigitalSilver@t... forum?
> > >
> > > At any rate, I'm back.
> > >
> > > It looks like MIS has posted some of the variable-tone
(their "variable
> > > mix") materials. I'll be finishing the 1280 curves soon.
The 7000 is
> > also
> > > now in the works. (Interestingly, a 2000 user is switching in
the
> > > variable-tone inkset. I had never though of that as a 3rd
party ink
> > > machine.)
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > http://www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > If you do not wish to belong to Digital B&W, The Print, you
may
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> > >
> > >
> > >
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> > >
> >
> >
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]Message
RE: [Digital BW] Greetings -- 7000 (& 3000)
2001-08-09 by Paul Roark