Digital BW, The Print

Hi Jerry,

 The curve window next to the color is the one I adjust. My 
understanding is this adjusts the distribution of the color 
throughout the print. I'm not sure if you can adjust the purple 
itself and leave the black alone. You might be able to do this with 
saturation I'm not sure. You are far more experienced with PS6.01 
than I am. I'm really glad to find that you can get a selenium-tone 
from MIS Archival color. Maybe I've finally found my inks. Thanks 
again, I really appreciate your help.

Tim














--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson 
<jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> Just did it Tim, I found the one. 
> 
> I tried the "Printer Color Management Profile", and purple four 
duotone.
> Results much more closely match the monitor. Then I tried the Adobe 
RGB
> profile, and that was a hair too light. The Generic RGB profile is 
just
> about to come out of the printer as I type. 
> 
> All three have the desired color. No crossovers. This is absolutely
> amazing for a color inkset. Perfect selenium tone prints!!!!!! 
(epson
> archival Matte paper).  I'm VERY impressed. 
> 
> Okay, the Generic RGB profile print just came out of the printer. It
> appears to match the monitor perfectly. There does not appear to be 
any
> metamerism to speak of, either.
> 
> If you haven't tried third party archival color inks yet, I suggest 
you
> get the MIS set and give these settings a try. I wonder why Adobe 
just
> didn't label these purple colors "Selenium 1, 2, 3, and 4?  That's 
what
> these appear to be.
> 
> The first three are just a hair too cold and blue, especially the 
first
> one. But that fourth one.! It's perfect.
> 
> Of course, I've only tried the one image, but it is a snow scene, 
and
> river, and looks really perfect with these colors.
> 
> I'm going to put a print in the south window tomorrow and see how 
long
> it takes to shift.
> 
> If these colors hold up, one probably wouldn't even need a quad or
> hextone set of inks. I'll be printing on many different papers over 
the
> next few days to see how this workflow holds up.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tyork@a... wrote:
> > 
> > Jerry,
> > 
> > Go to the canned duotones in PS6.01 and scroll over to the purple 
and
> > it will be there.
> > 
> > Tim
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > Tim, I can't get a 527 pantone purple. When I type in that 
number a
> > > light beige comes up.
> > >
> > > Jerry
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > >
> > > >  The Pantone 527 purple (100%) black 4. This is in PS6.01 
canned
> > > > duotones. I then played with the curve to get the 
distribution I
> > > > wanted. You might be able to get a more subtle effect if you
> > reduced
> > > > the purple. I didn't know how to do this. My knowledge of PS 
is
> > > > limited. I am more comfortable with the picture-taking as 
opposed
> > to
> > > > the picture-printing.
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > Exactly what purple and black ink?
> > > > >
> > > > > There are thousands of shades of purple!
> > > > >
> > > > > Jerry
> > > > >
> > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > >
> > > > > >  I use a black/purple duotone with curve adjustments on 
the
> > > > purple,
> > > > > > 1440 dpi, high speed off, matte paper setting,gamma 2.2, 
no
> > color
> > > > > > adjustments. The light is daytime and normal house 
lighting.
> > > > That's
> > > > > > about it Jerry. If I have missed something let me know.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Tim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > yup.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You addressed a post to Mike re: selenium-toned 
prints,
> > was
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > meant for me?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry Olson
> > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Mike, I don't think getting a selenium toned print 
will
> > be
> > > > > > > > difficult.
> > > > > > > > > But, Whenever you deal with black
> > > > > > > > > and white prints, there is metamerism. I got a nice
> > sepia
> > > > tone
> > > > > > on
> > > > > > > > Epson
> > > > > > > > > Watercolor paper, and on Eclipse paper yesterday, 
that
> > look
> > > > > > great in
> > > > > > > > > daylight, and are also attractive in Tungsten 
lighting,
> > but
> > > > are
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > slightly different tone of sepia. Also, Metamerism 
is
> > > > different
> > > > > > > > colors
> > > > > > > > > on different papers.  Color prints don't show a lot 
of
> > > > > > metamerism
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The trick will be to get a nice selenium tone print 
in
> > one
> > > > light
> > > > > > > > source
> > > > > > > > > that still looks attractive in another lighting
> > situation.
> > > > I've
> > > > > > > > done
> > > > > > > > > this for sepia tone, but selenium will be jore
> > difficult.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Exactly what are your settings for your epson
> > ink/selenium
> > > > > > prints?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What are your choices of lighting? Daylight, 
Tungsten,
> > > > > > Fluorescent?
> > > > > > > > In
> > > > > > > > > that order? I don't really have any fluorescent
> > lighting in
> > > > my
> > > > > > home
> > > > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > view these prints under, I have to take them to a
> > store. And
> > > > > > then
> > > > > > > > > there's 10 different color temperatures of 
fluorescent
> > > > lighting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Jerry,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >  Congratulations on your exhibit. Your images are
> > great
> > > > and
> > > > > > I'm
> > > > > > > > sure
> > > > > > > > > > they will be very well received by the public.
> > > > > > > > > >  My family and I always say Grace at meal times 
and we
> > > > > > included a
> > > > > > > > > > special prayer for everyone involved in 
yesterday's
> > > > terrible
> > > > > > > > events.
> > > > > > > > > > This doesn't sound very Christian-like but I hope 
you
> > send
> > > > > > those
> > > > > > > > > > bastards to HELL when you catch them.
> > > > > > > > > >  I hope, I hope, I hope that you can get a 
selenium-
> > toned
> > > > > > print
> > > > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > > > that inkset. The only thing that keeps me from
> > tearing my
> > > > > > hair out
> > > > > > > > > > (both of them) is that I have the OEM inkset which
> > gives
> > > > me
> > > > > > good
> > > > > > > > > > duotones. IMAGINE, JERRY OLSON printing sepia-
toned
> > prints
> > > > > > and as
> > > > > > > > > > Maxwell Smart would say AND LOVING IT :-). Jerry, 
they
> > > > almost
> > > > > > > > sound
> > > > > > > > > > like they are a platinum-tone with the rich 
blacks and
> > > > all.
> > > > > > Thanks
> > > > > > > > > > again, Jerry, for trying to help. I really 
appreciate
> > it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Best regards always,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > www.portraitsofnature.net
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Jerry 
Olson
> > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > Evening Tim,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Well, I've been doing a VERY odd thing for me
> > today. I
> > > > have
> > > > > > a
> > > > > > > > > > display of
> > > > > > > > > > > 15 photos going up in a new gallery in town. 
They
> > wanted
> > > > > > > > Sepiatone
> > > > > > > > > > > prints! After all I've gone through to get the 
cold
> > > > tones.
> > > > > > But
> > > > > > > > these
> > > > > > > > > > > Prints I've been printing today, aren't "Piezo
> > Brown".
> > > > They
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > genuinely a very attractive sepia tone, and I 
was
> > > > > > dumbfounded
> > > > > > > > as to
> > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > good they look. They are much richer in tone 
than
> > the
> > > > cold
> > > > > > tone
> > > > > > > > > > prints,
> > > > > > > > > > > and the blacks are deeper. (Browns?) Richer, and
> > more
> > > > > > luxurious
> > > > > > > > > > looking,
> > > > > > > > > > > anyhow!!) They were printed with a color balance
> > > > setting I
> > > > > > made
> > > > > > > > in
> > > > > > > > > > > photoshop, and were printed with the COLOR MIS
> > Archival
> > > > > > > > pigmented
> > > > > > > > > > inks.
> > > > > > > > > > > They actually look more classy than the cold 
tones
> > I've
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > printing
> > > > > > > > > > > for all these months. They work on Eclipse and
> > Somerset
> > > > > > Enhanced
> > > > > > > > > > paper
> > > > > > > > > > > beautifully. I have never seen a monotone print 
on
> > > > Somerset
> > > > > > > > velvet
> > > > > > > > > > > enhanced of this quality. The blacks? Browns? 
are
> > deeper
> > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > you
> > > > > > > > > > can
> > > > > > > > > > > get with cool tones on this paper.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So I would say yes, you can print any selenium 
tone
> > you
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > ever
> > > > > > > > > > want
> > > > > > > > > > > from this inkset. The prints I've been printing
> > today
> > > > don't
> > > > > > > > seem to
> > > > > > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > > > any noticeable metamerism; This must be because 
any
> > > > > > metamerism
> > > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > > this
> > > > > > > > > > > inkset tends to be a little bit red. (About 6 
or 7
> > ccs
> > > > of
> > > > > > red,
> > > > > > > > if
> > > > > > > > > > you go
> > > > > > > > > > > by the kodak Gelatin filters.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Again, I learn something new every day. i never
> > thought
> > > > I
> > > > > > would
> > > > > > > > > > actually
> > > > > > > > > > > like brown tones. But again, this is NOT an ugly
> > piezo
> > > > brown
> > > > > > > > color,
> > > > > > > > > > it
> > > > > > > > > > > is a really nice color!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Tomorrow, I'll try and print a Selenium toned 
print
> > for
> > > > you
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > see
> > > > > > > > > > how
> > > > > > > > > > > the metamerism goes. It is different, depending 
on
> > the
> > > > file
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > it's
> > > > > > > > > > > color/or grayscale mode. It is different if you
> > print it
> > > > > > from
> > > > > > > > an RGB
> > > > > > > > > > > image or from a Grayscale image.  So MANY
> > variations are
> > > > > > > > possible.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Every paper I've used on these sepia prints 
print
> > the
> > > > images
> > > > > > > > very
> > > > > > > > > > well.
> > > > > > > > > > > The only thing that does NOT look nice as this 
color
> > > > is, of
> > > > > > > > course,
> > > > > > > > > > snow
> > > > > > > > > > > scenes. They must be cool.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I really think if you put some testing time in 
with
> > this
> > > > > > inkset,
> > > > > > > > > > you are
> > > > > > > > > > > going to be very happy.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I just can't believe what happened in New York 
and
> > > > > > Washington
> > > > > > > > today.
> > > > > > > > > > > I've been glued to the news channels all day. I 
hope
> > > > they
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > > > > discover
> > > > > > > > > > > exactly who is behind this and eliminate them
> > utterly.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Take Care.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > tyork@a... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jery,
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your test on the MIS color inks in 
a
> > > > duotone
> > > > > > mode.
> > > > > > > > I
> > > > > > > > > > guess
> > > > > > > > > > > > that tears it for me. I am going to stay with 
the
> > > > Epson
> > > > > > OEM
> > > > > > > > inks
> > > > > > > > > > > > until there are inks that will do what I 
want. I
> > like
> > > > > > > > selenium-
> > > > > > > > > > toned
> > > > > > > > > > > > pictures and will wait for Cones selenium inks
> > and see
> > > > > > what
> > > > > > > > they
> > > > > > > > > > are
> > > > > > > > > > > > like. Thanks again.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Tim
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., 
Jerry
> > Olson
> > > > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Yup, Metamerism raised it's ugly head last 
night
> > > > with
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > MIS
> > > > > > > > > > color
> > > > > > > > > > > > > inkset and black and white prints. Too much 
to
> > > > accept,
> > > > > > > > toward
> > > > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > > red,
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid. A Real Pity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh well, back the the VM MIS inks....
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Jerry
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > daviddstock@e... wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y...,
> > Jerry
> > > > Olson
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > <jerryolson@r...> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >  I just printed some black and white 
prints
> > today,
> > > > > > using
> > > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > MIS
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > color inkset and the Torchon Profile I 
had
> > made
> > > > for
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > printer.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (1160)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Torchon, Epson Archival and Eclipse
> > paper,
> > > > this
> > > > > > > > profile
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > works very
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > well indeed. No color cross overs, and a
> > very
> > > > close
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > > > neutral
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > tone. I
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > was absolutely amazed to get consistent
> > black
> > > > and
> > > > > > white
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > prints from the
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > MIS color inkset.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about metamerism, Jerry? Using 
profiles,
> > I've
> > > > had
> > > > > > no
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > trouble getting good grayscale prints 
using
> > color
> > > > > > > > inksets. But
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > such prints have the reputation for being
> > either
> > > > > > > > impermanent
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > (like the Epson OEM dyes) or metameric 
(like
> > the
> > > > > > Epson and
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Generations pigments). The reported 
exception
> > has
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cone's Color Piezo, which has poor 
blacks...
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check 
the
> > > > Files,
> > > > > > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often 
being
> > > > > > updated. The
> > > > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the
> > Files,
> > > > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being
> > > > updated. The
> > > > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the 
Files,
> > > > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being
> > updated. The
> > > > > > page
> > > > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files,
> > Bookmarks,
> > > > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being 
updated. The
> > > > page
> > > > > > is at:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, 
Bookmarks,
> > > > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The
> > page
> > > > is at:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks,
> > Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The 
page
> > is at:
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/