Digital BW, The Print

Terry,

Thanks for all the information. It sounds like you have a great deal 
of experience in the area.

One of the biggest issues it that so many of these quad inks are 
being marketed for printers that are no longer in production. Even 
the 3000 is now gone. If they really want to sell their inks they 
need to provide a path that includes printers that are readily 
available.

They also need to provide some basic software even if it is just some 
RGB curves to use with the Epson driver. Do they honestly think there 
is some mass market out here that will buy inks they have to develop 
their own profiles for? 

At least ConeTech realized this part of the equation and provided 
customer support as well. They still offer the most comfortable path 
for people with little or no experience.

Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., "TerryR" <terryr1028@h...> 
wrote:
> Todd,
> 
> They are supposed to be 100% pigment, like the Color Piezo. 
Actually 
> the list owner just sells the inks, and appears totally dependent 
on 
> his information from the manufacturer. I went down that path with 
the 
> Cone Color Piezo inks becoming a paying beta tester as did many 
> others. While I don't doubt the Indelible inks work fine in the 
older 
> Epsons like the 1200 and the large format Epsons (for which they 
were 
> originally designed), I want proof from the 12x0 and 2000P line 
> before spending the money.
> 
> My testing has shown that the variations in these newer Epson 
> printers can be substantial from printer to printer. It seems to 
boil 
> down to the voltage output on each given printer at the head. In 
> testing many different inks, I have found that many inks that work 
> with the 1200 and older lines sometimes will not work in the newer 
> versions. Much of this has to do with the split droplet design, as 
> well as lower voltages in the two photo colors. Some will band, 
some 
> will mist, some will do both. The lower voltage output of the two 
> photo colors seems to be where the most problems stem from, as I 
> usually see little in the way of problems from the K,C,M, and Y. 
Many 
> of these inksets will need reformulated for lower viscosity in the 
Cc 
> and Mm positions to prevent problems.
> 
> As a result of the testing I have done I have become very cautious 
> about compatibility claims. I did offer to beta test the Indelible 
> inks in CIS systems on my printers since I was blessed (cursed) 
with 
> 2 1270's and a 2000P that will show these problems, but never 
> received a reply.
> 
> As a side note and good news is that the following inksets all work 
> perfectly:
> 
> MIS archival color
> Enhanced Generations
> MIS Variable Tone  
> 
> I think it is important for these ink manufacturers to shoot for 
> formulations that will work in the bulk of the printer lines they 
> advertise compatibility with. What I am finding, is that most only 
> test in one printer and if it works they claim compatibility. The 
> Color Piezo inks were a perfect example of this - they claimed 
> compatibility with the 12x0 and 2000P line with minimal testing 
(even 
> though they had a 2000P that showed the misting problem). They then 
> purchased 10 brand new printers and 2 of the 10 showed problems, 
now 
> they don't recommend these inks in cartridges (but claim to be 
> developing a high viscosity CIS!?) for the 12x0 or 2000P line.
> 
> Just my 2 cents and maybe something for any ink manufacturers 
> monitoring the list to consider.
> 
> Terry
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner 
<tflash@e...> 
> wrote:
> > Ha, I hadn't even noticed the part about the mono inks. That is 
> interesting.
> > I don't even know if any of these inks are dyes or pigs, do you?
> > 
> > Todd
> > 
> > > All I know is from the same list Todd, so you know as much as 
I. 
> I'm waiting
> > > for some responces to Jim's questions too. I was
> > > just suprised they are offering quad and hex mono inks, all 
> previous info has
> > > been about color.
> > > We'll see.
> > > Tyler
> > > 
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@y..., Todd Flashner 
> <tflash@e...> wrote:
> > >> Tyler,
> > >> 
> > >> I've been monitoring that list for a week, and so far haven't 
> heard anything
> > >> but sales claims. Those claims do sound good, but I'd sure 
like 
> to hear them
> > >> backed up by some users. Have you seen anything along those 
> lines? I found
> > >> the follow up questions to that post interesting and hope some 
> answers will
> > >> follow. At $50 per 4oz color, testing won't be cheap. Anyway, 
if 
> you do hear
> > >> of anything good from a third party please pass it along.
> > >> 
> > >> Todd 
> > >> 
> > >>> Well, as always when I get settled into certain materials and 
> workflows,
> > >>> something interesting comes along to consume
> > >>> all my time with testing. I don't feel comfortable directly 
> quoting people,
> > >>> but for those interested in another pigment quad/
> > >>> hex ink as well as color, check this out-
> > >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/InkOptions/message/62
> > >>> Haven't tried it yet.
> > >>> Tyler