Digital BW, The Print

Martin,

This is why I like you. Very sane, well informed, good ideas, good host. I
bet you keep good booze on hand too.

Got any sisters?

Todd

>> Martin,
>> 
>> Your post nicely summarizes the landscape here, and I should probably just
>> let it stand, but I have work I'm trying to avoid. ;-)
>> 
>> I think the above gets to the heart of what my quibble was. There seems to
>> be an assumption (by many, including myself at one point) that the RGB
>> workflow is harsher on a file than sending a grayscale file through the
>> Piezo driver/profile, and I'm just not sure that is the case.
> 
> Todd,
> 
> Can't argue with you on that since I don't have anyway to accurately test
> it. Perhaps someone who uses a RIP workflow where you apply CMYK separation
> curves prior to printing can comment on what the histogram looks like before
> and after. Of course we don't know if the Piezo driver functions in CMYK or
> not. Odds are it does partition the inks in some fashion.
>> 
>> Yes, in the RGB workflow we know the image is tortured by radical
> separation
>> curves, but do we know that the Piezo alternative is any less dramatic?
>> Unfortunately we don't. *Something* is still partitioning those same ink
>> densities. I'd say the proof is in the output, and we know that both can
>> fail.
> 
> Yep.
>> 
>>> Posterization can have many sources.
>>> The most common is probably over manipulating 8-bit files and I think
> the
>>> second maybe scanning.
>> 
>> I'll spite myself and go out on a limb and suggest that the inkjet process
>> itself is the primary cause of the posterization most on this list
>> experience.
> 
> Could very well be true. The one caution I have in that regard is that many
> people report problems with workflows, materials and equipment identical to
> what others report success with. I have seen people get very poor results
> with the MIS-VM on a 1280 with Windows identical to my set up. My wedges
> look pretty good and theirs looked pretty hopeless for use with real prints.
> This is very technical stuff and there would appear to be many variables
> that may not always be under control. In the end though I have seen so many
> excellent ink jet B&W prints and heard so many stories of failure I have to
> conclude that it is a workable medium but not an easy one. I don't consider
> silver printing easy either.
>> 
>> My sense is that since all workflows are working with similar ink
> densities
>> and similarly applying those densities across the image, tones that fall
>> into those density (and sometimes hue) cracks and transitions may fail
>> similarly with all systems.
> 
> I am not sure that the ink densities are that close. From what Paul has said
> there is quite a bit of density variation between a Y position Piezo ink and
> a Y position MIS-VM ink.
> 
>> That all are capable of posterization with
>> pristine files seems to bear that out.
> 
> Only if the original scans and/or source negs are free of posterization.
> From my own experience I have encountered posterization either as a result
> of too much image manipulation or a neg that was flat to begin with. A good
> test would be to take your pure 8-bit file that posterized and print it as a
> mono ink print to see if the posterization is a result of the partitioning
> or not.
>> 
>> Now if this were a group of LTV outputters I'd agree fully with what you
> say
>> above.
> 
> Since photo laser printers are RGB devices printing on color material I
> guess no partitioning is involved so data loss or damage should not be an
> issue. I wish I had one. <G>
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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