Digital BW, The Print

Dave,

I don't have any desire to open up this whole can of worms again because it has run its course as far as I'm concerned. But to answer a very, very good question you just asked....which wasn't answered yesterday.....

The one thing I would mention is that a lot of the frustration you see in the posts by those of us who have been using "alternative" approaches to monochrome inkjet through mixing our own inksets whether Piezography, MIS, Media Street, or whatever, see ourselves running up against the wall of being locked out of all future piezo type printers, possibly forever. It started with desktops and moved to the large format printers like the 9900 and 7900 now. They like have an electrically coded chastity belt on them now. It may very well put an end to a whole era of openness that has made user groups like this one possible. When all the future inkjet output will be from giant OEM companies alone, something will be missing. That is a very real possibility. Some people won't miss it, others will. I will.

Unfortunately this paranoia on the part of Epson to lock out experimental black and white inks that CAN do things they can't, has also recently included the locking out of some of the finest software capability ever created to work with these inks (including OEM inks) such as Studio Print and QTR, and whats next Qimage and Bauhau rips to? 

In my opinion, and this is MY opinion, one of the reasons you sense a heightened degree of sarcasm on the part of many of us using these large format systems for alternative processes is that Roy Harrington's and Jon Cone's (much earlier) genuine love of this medium and his totally unselfish devotion to upping the standards for black and white inkjet imaging for over a decade (when Epson bw indeed did suck 100%) made the demand for ABW surface in the first place. Again, just my opinion and you don't have to agree with me. But I was there using the horrible Lyson quads and everything else trying to make something happen at great expense and frustration because there WAS no Epson solution, none. Others were using neutralized carbon inks that ended up in museums all over the world way before Epson even offered a single light black to work with in the K2 inkset. Yes, that was then and this is now.

Now that Epson's improvements to black and white output is decent enough for many to do great things with it, why are they still so paranoid about some little guy like Roy Harrington continuing to offer great software that can do things they can't do or won't do in the same way for those who need it? To me Roy Harrington is a hero, not a reckless vigilante.

I never heard an answer to that question, and this attitude is one of the reasons I moved on the HPZ series for my color work, and a lot of black and white work on glossy media as well. At least HP doesn't freak out when we don't use HP media and even offers media presets to use papers they don't sell. In the world of mega photography, at least that is a start. But without the small independent rebel tweaking around the parameters of the mass products, everything ends up looking the same. Again, just my opinion.

john 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dtphotog" <dtrout@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> 
> John, Jon, (and Roy Harrington too),
> 
> I don't often post here, yet I couldn't help respond at this point in this thread.  I am currently printing with ABW (and still learning how to make it do what I want) but I would also love to investigate some of the more specialized printing approaches being discussed here.  The problem is that I use an Epson 7900.  QTR doesn't support it and says it won't be able to because of Epson constraints, yet ColorByte has been able to (finally) release a version of ImagePrint that does. (My simple test showed that IP8 does produce very slightly better screening than the Epson driver and ABW.) And as far as I know, it's not possible to consider something like K6/K7 in a 7900 (assuming I'd actually want to do that).
> 
> The problem for me is that I would like to be able to take advantage of improvements in the core technology being released by the printer vendors (i.e. improved dot structure, paper handling, etc.), but this means giving up the option to experiment with other software (and especially) ink combinations.  So to me there is an interesting irony in that you can't explore these "improved" printing approaches using the latest printer technologies.  I'm fully aware of all the reasons for this, yet I'm still struck by how improvements in one aspect of making fine prints can actually torpedo your ability to make improvements in other areas.  I guess it comes down to having to make choices (and therefore compromises), as Jon said earlier in this thread.
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "john" <deanwork2003@> wrote:
> >
> > Right, Jim, it's a race to the bottom. 
> > 
> > Walker's right QTR rocks in so many ways. It is an amazing resource for both K3 and Piezography. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Epson set up a competition base to their own customers.. realistically we could all say they don't have the quality. But in truth they do if the image produced is deemed acceptable by the customer.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > jimbo
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: deanwork2003 
> > >   To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 7:36 PM
> > >   Subject: [Digital BW] ABW is Walmart Special
> > > 
> > > 
> > >     
> > >   Well that is more than an ironic metaphor. I went into the Super Walmart the other day, up here in the burbs of Georgia to buy some soap, and low and behold there it was, the Super Walmart digital imaging center, complete with Epson 7880s, cranking out ABW prints by the thousands. I wish I were kidding but I'm afraid that IS what this HAS come to, right now, artistically created cheaper by the dozen "archival" pigment prints on Sommerset Enhanced. And they didn't even need QTR....
> > >   Isn't life great.
> > > 
> > >   john
> > > 
> > >   --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "igor_mountain" <igorkarpenko@> wrote:
> > >   >
> > >   > It sounds more like the "Wal-Mart way" - come in and run small shops out of business with cheaper and lower quality products. I would think that the American way is supporting a US-based small business that is innovative and which employs US citizens. 
> > >   > 
> > >   > But what do I know - I grew up in a Communist country :-)
> > >   >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   
> > > 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>