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Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-07-25 by plavigna@...

Hi guys,
I wanted to know if anybody had successfully send a snapshot of the DW parameters back to the BCR everytime you change a program in the DW so all knobs reflect the values on the synth.  Just like CTRLR does when you change your program in the DW.
Thanks in advance.


Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-07-26 by rpcfender@...

Hi Pablo,

I have my DW6000 working really well with a BCR2000 with synth patch change resyncing the BCR.
You can check out a video at BCR<=>DW6k
BCR<=>DW6k
Connecting the Korg Connecting the BCR2000 to a Korg DW6000 synthesisers Video is not visible, most likely your browser does not support HTML5 video
View on www.bwalk.com.au
Preview by Yahoo

 

 that I have just upgraded to HTML5 so most recent browsers should work.

Feel free to ask any questions and let me know what you think. 

All the best
Royce

Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-07-28 by rpcfender@...

Hi Pablo

I wish I had an DW8k to modify the program.
I will have a look at the sysex details and see how much needs to be changed. 
I will need someone to test the software, which can be a bit time consuming.

Shoot me an email if you are interested.

Royce

Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-07-31 by rpcfender@...

Hi Claus,
Thanks for the link.
I found a CTRL panel, is that what you mean or the BCR2000 patch for the DW8000? Did I miss something?
 
It looks to be an excellent BCR2k patch for the DW8k. 
This has the great advantage of not having to have a computer in the middle.
Fortunately you can do this with the DW8000 as it has all of its parameters on separate memory locations.
Not so for the DW6000 you have to unpack multiple parameters on a single byte of memory and the BCR can't do that.

The other disadvantage is that if you change the patch you can't get the BCR to request the sysex from the synth so that the BCR stays in sync with the synth. 
Even if you could the BCR can't unpack a bulk sysex dump.
EVen if you could get teh BCR to request the individual paramerer sysex you can only set the controls on the BCR when the control is outputting CC messages (and perhaps some other simple messages I can't remember) and you send the correct CC. 

Syncing by CC is what Live and Reason etc do so what you see on the screen is what you see on the BCR.

So even for the simplest case, when you power on the machine, you have to twist every knob and press every button to get them in sync otherwise it will jump value in performance. 

I think Pablo was asking about sending a snapshot of the synth values back to the BCR.

All the best
Royce

Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-01 by rpcfender@...

Hi Pablo (and anyone else that is interested),

here is the first pass on the DW8K<=>BCR program.
For PC and needs a BCR2000.
To start ...
It only has the equivalent DW6k parameters, but that is most of them. 
The graphics in the wave drawing are rough and need fixing.

Let me know if the Sysex works and the BCR manages to change settings on the synth..
The program should request a sysex dump from the synth when you change patches on the DW8k and the BCR should sync up to the new patch.

Check each control does what it is supposed to and that the range is correct.
As I don't have DW8k, I am flying blind here so you need to give detailed replies and be patient. 

See if you can break it and let me know what you did so I can stop you from doing it again. 8)

All the best
Royce

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-01 by Pablo Lavigna

Great, I will check it and give feedback.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2015, at 2:13 AM, rpcfender@... [DW8000] <DW8000@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Hi Pablo (and anyone else that is interested),


here is the first pass on the DW8K<=>BCR program.
For PC and needs a BCR2000.
To start ...
It only has the equivalent DW6k parameters, but that is most of them. 
The graphics in the wave drawing are rough and need fixing.

Let me know if the Sysex works and the BCR manages to change settings on the synth..
The program should request a sysex dump from the synth when you change patches on the DW8k and the BCR should sync up to the new patch.

Check each control does what it is supposed to and that the range is correct.
As I don't have DW8k, I am flying blind here so you need to give detailed replies and be patient. 

See if you can break it and let me know what you did so I can stop you from doing it again. 8)

All the best
Royce

Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-02 by rpcfender@...

Hi Claus,

You can really use any controller to send CC messages that the program converts to sysex for the DW.

You can do this without a computer, of course, if the controller can send sysex, but unlike the DW8000, the DW6000 packs two values into 1 byte and I don't know of any controller that can pack two different controller values and send this as a single sysex.  

So if you have a DW6k you can use that version of the program with most controllers to control the synth even if you can't get the controller to sync with the synth. 

Both the BCR and the BCF will reset any controller to the incoming value  value if it is sent the same type of message (eg CC 07 new value) that it is programmed to send. (CC 07 old value)

The program just uses CC on channel 1 and the CC type is  based on the Parameter Offset for the Korg which you can find in the Midi section of the manual.

Just work out you layout (the top 8 encoders can have 4 groups so you get 32 encoders with 32 buttons + 8 faders + a further 16 buttons ). Working out the best place to put things is part that I always find hard.

You can program each from the front panel if you don't want to use Mark van den Berg's editor.
Set it for CC and the type number for the parameter and set the range, mostly 0 to 31, all given in the Parameter Values table in the DW manual.


All the best
Royce

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-04 by plavigna@...

Royce,

Communication seems to work perfectly, even when the first program change from the Korg.  After the first program change, I guess something happens, because the BCR does not keep up with program changes after that.
I did test the program in USB U-3 and standalone S-4 modes obtaining the same results in both modes.

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-04 by rpcfender@...

New version to download at bwalk.com.au

Let me know if this solves the problem.
If it does, I'll go on to add the extra parameters. 


---In DW8000@yahoogroups.com, <plavigna@...> wrote :

This is the error I get after I try to change the program from the Korg a second time.  Like I mention, the first time everything seems to be working fine. 

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-05 by rpcfender@...

OK the new version has been loaded into BCR<=>DW8k
BCR<=>DW8k
This is the testers page for a DW8000 version of the BCR to DW6000 program Version 0.9 This first full version. I have crammed the extra parameters in and this is where it is likely to go haywire.
View on www.bwalk.com.au
Preview by Yahoo

 

 and there is a new BCR patch as well so you will need to load that by going to the Midi setup page and pressing the button "Send Sysex to BCR".

I have placed a list of CC values and the ranges needed for the program so if you have a different controller you can set that up to send CC messages to convert to DW8k System Exclusive (sysex) .


All the best
Royce

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-06 by plavigna@...

Royce, everything maps beautifully.  I was wondering what would be the more logical layout for all the controllers on the BCR.  I like the filter section and the envelopes VCA and VCF section, but I am not sure about the rest on the first row of knobs and the 2 rows of buttons.  What do you have in mind?

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-07 by rpcfender@...

Hi Pablo,
glad to hear it is all working.

As far as the layout is concerned, did mention this is the part that is the most frustrating and takes up the greatest amount of design time. 8)

As I am a bit dim,  always try to make the layout as easy to remember as I can, with the most used parameters grouped together or at ends of rows.
The green line down the middle matches a piece of thin tape I have put on my BCRs. 
I find locating a control in a row much quicker in a group of 4 than in a group of 8.

For the DW the design rules I tried to follow are..
  all the parameters had to fit without overlays or BCR groups 
  parameters that have a large range should be on an encoder
  controls are clustered by function. 
eg envelope parameters are together
     VCF things are together 
     VCA things are together
     OSC things are together
     LFO (MG) things are together
As expected, it didn't always work out. For example the Delay intensity has a range of 0 to 31, but I had to put it on a button to keep it with the other Delay parameters.
As I don't have a DW8k I don't know if this is a much used control.

Play with it for a while and let me know if there is a better layout and I can make a new version for you.

All the best
Royce

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-08 by rpcfender@...

Hi Pablo,

looks good, but it fails my DW6k to 8K program port as it has groups.
This needs major changes in the code to display the values on on the screen.

You can have that layout with parameter feed back by just reprogramming the BCR.
You should grab the text document on the testers page that gives the CC type and range for each parameter.
You do loose the displayed values being in the right place, so I guess you would need to ignore the PC screen.

When the group buttons (top right) are used to 'page' in a new top row of encoders the BCR does this internally and doesn't send any Midi out to indicate that the group has been changed so the program can never detect a change.
I could add 3 extra rows of encoder values and labels at the top I guess, but I suspect it would get confusing.
I guess I could wait till one of the top row controls moved and then I would know that the group has changed.

I did a version of groups where the BCR put out CC values for the 4 group buttons instead of changing internally and I changed all the display values in the program. 
I then found it more convenient to use the 4 lower buttons.
It was done for a 4 op Yamaha synth TQ5. BCR<=>TQ5
BCR<=>TQ5
Connecting the Yamaha Connecting the BCR2000 to a Yamaha TQ5 synthesisers Go to a new version of the software Video is not visible, most likely your browser ...
View on www.bwalk.com.au
Preview by Yahoo

The top row was used for operator parameters and as there are 4 op it was perfect.
Have a look at the video.
It works well but was a lot of extra coding.

All the best
Royce

Re: [DW8000] Re: Controlling the Korg DW-800 with the Behringer BCR-2000 issues

2015-08-12 by rpcfender@...

Excellent. Thanks for testing it Pablo.

Here is the last mod to the program(s).

I noticed that Mchale72 template mentions he set the DW8000 to Midi channel 11 and for any other channel you need to edit the BCR patch.

My CC patch for the BCR uses channel 1, but I am able to include the ability to change the Midi channel going out to the DW8000 within the program. So you can set the DW8k to any channel you like.

So I hope that is useful to someone.


All the best
Royce