Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

I use all my own pads with my DTXpress and they work just fine. I'd recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers. The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have already gone down this route.
If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare with rimshots.
Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've tried. 
I'd go with the Pintech into 9/10 and live with it though, I've heard so many good reports about them.

----------

From: 	Richard C. MacDonald
Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 1:56 AM
To: 	dtxpress
Subject: 	[DTXpress] New Pad Advice

<<File: ATT00000.htm>>
Hi all,
I'm feeling like I need another tom so it's time to move my "snare" pad up onto the rack and get a new dual zone pad to use as the snare. Couple of ways of looking at this, I guess:
1) Get a Yamaha dual zone pad (TP80?) and keep it all easy and compatible. This gives all the pads a consistant feel and assures easy hook up and a minimum of hassle. Also relatively inexpensive.
2) Pintech: Has anyone actually gone this route yet? Mesh head, good price. Drawbacks are that they need a splitter cord and have to be run into the 9/10 input. I would have to use the 9/10 anyway for any new pad so... Mesh head would give the kit an inconsistant feel with the others being rubber? Anyone comment on this? On an acoustic set, the snare feels different from the toms anyway, so is this a big deal?
3) Roland V or Hart Acoustech: Expensive but excellent feel and response. Similar cord or mesh head issues?

If anyone has added pads to the DTXpress, I'd like to hear how it's working. 
Thanks,
Rick

Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.

There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.

There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
1-8 on the Yamaha modules.

These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.

The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
Hart Dynamics dual triggers.


So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
Roland's 11)

Brandon

On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
>recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
>remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
>The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
>have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
>crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
>already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
>however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
>stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
>using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
>with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
>built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
>Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
>triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
>tried. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band

Ahh. Both of your messages help me a lot. There's another option that I
hadn't considered but that may combine the best of both options. I could go
with the Pintech SE102 dual zone rubber pad (10.5"!) and run it into the
channel 2 snare input of the DTXpress. This way, I get a bigger pad, dual
zone, lower price (US$90.00 @ Rockbottom) and still have channel 10 free
(I'll use 9 for the new "tom" pad that I am freeing up). I give up the mesh
head but I've lived without it this long...

I guess I would just need to double-confirm that the Pintech rubber pad
works the same way as the Yamaha. I'm imagining that it does as it takes a
single stereo cable vs. the dual-mono out that the mesh ones have. Will also
have to see whether it mounts onto the Yamaha rod.

Thanks again. Any other opinions or experiences with adding-on are most
welcome,
Rick


-----Original Message-----
From: Brandon E Paluzzi <bp33@...>
To: 'DTXpress@egroups.com' <DTXpress@egroups.com>
Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:08 AM

Subject: RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice


>Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
>
>There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
>
>There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
>1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
>
>These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
>This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
>an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
>way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
>
>The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
>TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
>confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
>inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
>pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
>dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
>Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
>
>
>So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
>Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
>dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
>Roland's 11)
>
>Brandon
>
>On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
>>recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
>>remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
>>The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
>>have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
>>crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
>>already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
>>however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
>>stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
>>using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
>>with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
>>built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
>>Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
>>triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
>>tried.
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
>
>  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
>  Information and Decision Systems,
>  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
>
>  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
>Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
>CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
>http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
>
>

Looking at the site, I'm sure you'll be okay.

The give-aways are "switching technology" and "choke"

Both of those require an FSR, which is what the Yamaha pads use.

For the mount- it depends what size l-rod they're using. If it's a 12 mm
(DW), it should be fine.  If it's a 10.5 mm (Ludwig, Tama, Premier), it
may be a bit tight.

Brandon

On Sun, 9
Jul 2000,
Richard
C. MacDonald wrote:

> Ahh. Both of your messages help me a lot. There's another option that I
> hadn't considered but that may combine the best of both options. I could go
> with the Pintech SE102 dual zone rubber pad (10.5"!) and run it into the
> channel 2 snare input of the DTXpress. This way, I get a bigger pad, dual
> zone, lower price (US$90.00 @ Rockbottom) and still have channel 10 free
> (I'll use 9 for the new "tom" pad that I am freeing up). I give up the mesh
> head but I've lived without it this long...
> 
> I guess I would just need to double-confirm that the Pintech rubber pad
> works the same way as the Yamaha. I'm imagining that it does as it takes a
> single stereo cable vs. the dual-mono out that the mesh ones have. Will also
> have to see whether it mounts onto the Yamaha rod.
> 
> Thanks again. Any other opinions or experiences with adding-on are most
> welcome,
> Rick
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brandon E Paluzzi <bp33@...>
> To: 'DTXpress@egroups.com' <DTXpress@egroups.com>
> Date: Sunday, July 09, 2000 10:08 AM
> Subject: RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> 
> 
> >Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
> >
> >There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
> >
> >There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
> >1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
> >
> >These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
> >This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
> >an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
> >way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
> >
> >The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
> >TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
> >confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
> >inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
> >pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
> >dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
> >Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
> >
> >
> >So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
> >Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
> >dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
> >Roland's 11)
> >
> >Brandon
> >
> >On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> >>recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
> >>remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
> >>The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
> >>have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
> >>crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
> >>already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
> >>however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
> >>stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
> >>using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
> >>with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
> >>built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
> >>Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
> >>triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
> >>tried.
> >
> >
> >~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> >
> >  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
> >  Information and Decision Systems,
> >  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> >
> >  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
> >Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
> >CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Community email addresses:
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> >  Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
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> >
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> >  http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> >
> >
> 
> 
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> http://click.egroups.com/1/6695/12/_/643449/_/963168915/
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> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band

The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo sensors.  alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've had first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs than the DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.

----------

From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 6:08 PM
To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice

Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.

There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.

There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
1-8 on the Yamaha modules.

These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.

The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
Hart Dynamics dual triggers.


So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
Roland's 11)

Brandon

On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
>recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
>remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
>The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
>have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
>crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
>already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
>however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
>stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
>using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
>with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
>built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
>Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
>triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
>tried. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

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  Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
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  Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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Shortcut URL to this page:
  http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress

Are you talking about my message?

I said that the Roland uses dual piezos (on the mesh head pads)

The rubber pads are a piezo head sensor and an FSR rim trigger, like the
yamahas.

Bp


On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:

> The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right
>about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read
>previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo sensors.
>alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've had
>first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
>By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs than the
>DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.
> 
> ----------
> From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 6:08 PM
> To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> 
> Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
> 
> There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
> 
> There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
> 1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
> 
> These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
> This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
> an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
> way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
> 
> The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
> TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
> confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
> inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
> pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
> dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
> Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
> 
> 
> So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
> Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
> dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
> Roland's 11)
> 
> Brandon
> 
> On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> >recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
> >remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
> >The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
> >have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
> >crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
> >already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
> >however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
> >stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
> >using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
> >with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
> >built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
> >Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
> >triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
> >tried. 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> 
>   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
>   Information and Decision Systems,
>   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> 
>   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
> Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
> CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
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> 
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>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> http://click.egroups.com/1/5536/12/_/643449/_/963249699/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> Community email addresses:
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> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band

Fellow DTX users:
First: I tried to live with the standard single zone snare for about 
ten minutes, before upgrading to the Yamaha TP80S  which works fairly 
well. It's still not a real snare but don't forget ,you can assign
two voices to each zone of the snare, crossfade them for more
realistic 
dynamic response. It takes a little care in choosing sounds, x-fade 
levels and of course, playing technique.
Second: The Roland V's have not worked at all (for me) in channel 2
of the DTXpress, supporting the previous statements made. We didn't 
have the right cord to try ch 9/10 (at the dealer) but I am curious
to 
try that option: a mesh pad has to provide a more realistic for 
practice of snare rudiments. 
Third: I have experimented with a homemade pad using two piezo 
elements, per directions from http://www.electronicdrums.com
I joined the electronicdrums forum to get insight into homebuilt pads 
and have successfully added a second crash cymbal (under$10) and my 
"prototype" two zone snare. My plan is to buy a replacement mesh
head, 
mount it to a 4"X12"acrylic "drum shell" i can have made for about
$30 
(plus the cost of 6 lugs/rods and a rim from a local dealer) Mounting 
this on a snare stand. That way the rack doesn't bounce or false 
trigger. 
  
Glad to see activity on this forum again...

Mark

--- In DTXpress@egroups.com, Brandon E Paluzzi <bp33@a...> wrote:
> Are you talking about my message?
> 
> I said that the Roland uses dual piezos (on the mesh head pads)
> 
> The rubber pads are a piezo head sensor and an FSR rim trigger,
like the
> yamahas.
> 
> Bp
> 
> 
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 sanctum@s... wrote:
> 
> > The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right
> >about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read
> >previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo
sensors.
> >alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've
had
> >first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
> >By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs
than the
> >DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.
> >

Yes I was Brandon.
I've read in previous articles that Roland uses piezo sensors for all their rim triggers, but I've never played with a Roland setup enough to know first hand, so if you have first hand knowledge to the contrary Im willing to change my point of view.

----------

From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
Sent: 	Monday, July 10, 2000 6:27 PM
To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice

Are you talking about my message?

I said that the Roland uses dual piezos (on the mesh head pads)

The rubber pads are a piezo head sensor and an FSR rim trigger, like the
yamahas.

Bp


On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:

> The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right
>about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read
>previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo sensors.
>alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've had
>first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
>By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs than the
>DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.
> 
> ----------
> From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 6:08 PM
> To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> 
> Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
> 
> There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
> 
> There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
> 1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
> 
> These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
> This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
> an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
> way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
> 
> The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
> TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
> confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
> inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
> pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
> dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
> Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
> 
> 
> So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
> Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
> dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
> Roland's 11)
> 
> Brandon
> 
> On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> >recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
> >remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
> >The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
> >have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
> >crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
> >already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
> >however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
> >stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
> >using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
> >with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
> >built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
> >Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
> >triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
> >tried. 
> 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> 
>   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
>   Information and Decision Systems,
>   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> 
>   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
> Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
> CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Old school buds here:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5536/12/_/643449/_/963249699/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
http://click.egroups.com/1/5530/12/_/643449/_/963250059/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Community email addresses:
  Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
  Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
  Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
  List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
  http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress

Yes, I'm willing to go on record as first-hand information-- the Roland
(and Yamaha) rubber pads use a piezo for the center of the head and an FSR
for the rim.  This is the only setup that will allow dual triggering on
inputs 1-8 on the DTX v2.0 and 2-12 on the TD-10.

BP

On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:

> Yes I was Brandon.
> I've read in previous articles that Roland uses piezo sensors for all their rim triggers, but I've never played with a Roland setup enough to know first hand, so if you have first hand knowledge to the contrary Im willing to change my point of view.
> 
> ----------
> From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> Sent: 	Monday, July 10, 2000 6:27 PM
> To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> 
> Are you talking about my message?
> 
> I said that the Roland uses dual piezos (on the mesh head pads)
> 
> The rubber pads are a piezo head sensor and an FSR rim trigger, like the
> yamahas.
> 
> Bp
> 
> 
> On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> 
> > The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right
> >about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read
> >previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo sensors.
> >alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've had
> >first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
> >By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs than the
> >DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.
> > 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> > Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 6:08 PM
> > To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> > Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> > 
> > Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
> > 
> > There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
> > 
> > There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
> > 1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
> > 
> > These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
> > This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
> > an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
> > way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
> > 
> > The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
> > TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
> > confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
> > inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
> > pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
> > dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
> > Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
> > 
> > 
> > So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
> > Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
> > dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
> > Roland's 11)
> > 
> > Brandon
> > 
> > On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> > >recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
> > >remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
> > >The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
> > >have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
> > >crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
> > >already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
> > >however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
> > >stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
> > >using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
> > >with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
> > >built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
> > >Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
> > >triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
> > >tried. 
> > 
> > 
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> > 
> >   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
> >   Information and Decision Systems,
> >   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> > 
> >   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
> > Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
> > CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > 
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Old school buds here:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5536/12/_/643449/_/963249699/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > 
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> 
>   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
>   Information and Decision Systems,
>   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> 
>   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5530/12/_/643449/_/963250059/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Want to be the first to know?  
> Be the first to see sneak peeks of new music, movies and games!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/6693/12/_/643449/_/963342948/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band

Whoops, make that 1 and 3-12 on the TD-10

bp

On Wed, 12 Jul 2000, Brandon E Paluzzi wrote:

> 
> Yes, I'm willing to go on record as first-hand information-- the Roland
> (and Yamaha) rubber pads use a piezo for the center of the head and an FSR
> for the rim.  This is the only setup that will allow dual triggering on
> inputs 1-8 on the DTX v2.0 and 2-12 on the TD-10.
> 
> BP
> 
> On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> 
> > Yes I was Brandon.
> > I've read in previous articles that Roland uses piezo sensors for all their rim triggers, but I've never played with a Roland setup enough to know first hand, so if you have first hand knowledge to the contrary Im willing to change my point of view.
> > 
> > ----------
> > From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> > Sent: 	Monday, July 10, 2000 6:27 PM
> > To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> > Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> > 
> > Are you talking about my message?
> > 
> > I said that the Roland uses dual piezos (on the mesh head pads)
> > 
> > The rubber pads are a piezo head sensor and an FSR rim trigger, like the
> > yamahas.
> > 
> > Bp
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> > 
> > > The DTXpress only has on dual input, and I'm not sure you're right
> > >about the Roland using condensers for the rim triggers, I've read
> > >previously that the rim triggers in Roland pads are just piezo sensors.
> > >alittle conflicting information going arround obviously, if you've had
> > >first hand experience of this I'm willing to change my perspective.
> > >By the By, the DTX V2.0 seems to have far less irritating bugs than the
> > >DTXpress, is that right? Is it worth the extra dosh, I may upgrade.
> > > 
> > > ----------
> > > From: 	Brandon E Paluzzi
> > > Sent: 	Sunday, July 09, 2000 6:08 PM
> > > To: 	'DTXpress@egroups.com'
> > > Subject: 	RE: [DTXpress] New Pad Advice
> > > 
> > > Actually, you'd have the same problem with the Roland.
> > > 
> > > There are two different types of inputs on all Roland and Yamaha modules.
> > > 
> > > There are stereo inputs, which are found on inputs 2-12 on the TD-10, and
> > > 1-8 on the Yamaha modules.
> > > 
> > > These are designed to only give dual zone triggering with rubber pads.
> > > This is because rubber pads use a piezo as the primary (head) trigger, but
> > > an FSR (force-sensing resistor) as the second trigger.  This is the only
> > > way to get double zone out of a stereo trigger.
> > > 
> > > The second type of input is a dual input.  This is found on input 1 on the
> > > TD-10, and inputs 9/10 and 11/12 on the DTX.  Don't let the numbering
> > > confuse you-- The inputs are exactly the same.  They allow for two piezo
> > > inputs.  This means that you can either split two separate (single zone)
> > > pads, or use a dual piezo pad.  Dual piezo pads include the 12" and 8"
> > > dual pads from Roland, Spacemuffins from BOom Theory, and the Pintech and
> > > Hart Dynamics dual triggers.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > So, since we've discovered that the problem is the same on Roland and
> > > Yamaha, with the Yammies you're actually better off, since you have two
> > > dual inputs.  (with the drawback being the 8 stereo, opposed to the
> > > Roland's 11)
> > > 
> > > Brandon
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 9 Jul 2000 sanctum@... wrote:
> > > >recommend the Pintech dual zone ST (SilenTech) snare at around $190 If I
> > > >remember correctl it's a 14" snare with a mesh head and rim triggers.
> > > >The only drawback of this route is that using the 9/10 channels you don't
> > > >have true rim to pad triggering control so I worry you may get alot of
> > > >crosstalk, I hope others will comment on that as I know some people have
> > > >already gone down this route. If you bought a Yamaha dual zone pad
> > > >however, it would go into channel 2 - snare, since all your channels are
> > > >stereo anyway, this gives full rim to pad trigger and voice control, but
> > > >using a rubber dual zone pad isn't anything like playing a real snare
> > > >with rimshots. Compromises all round I'm afraid, if only Yamaha had
> > > >built their stereo sockets like Roland do there'd be no problem, but
> > > >Yamaha use a different technology for their rim triggers to their pad
> > > >triggers, so you cant split jacks 1-8 for two pad inputs, I know, I've
> > > >tried. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> > > 
> > >   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
> > >   Information and Decision Systems,
> > >   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> > > 
> > >   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Law.com is the preeminent online destination for legal professionals.
> > > Visit Law.com for exclusive content from American Lawyer Media, online
> > > CLE Seminars, Practice Centers and Career Listings.
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5803/12/_/643449/_/963162512/
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > > 
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Old school buds here:
> > > http://click.egroups.com/1/5536/12/_/643449/_/963249699/
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 
> > > Community email addresses:
> > >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> > >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> > >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> > >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > > 
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > > 
> > 
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> > 
> >   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
> >   Information and Decision Systems,
> >   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> > 
> >   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Make new friends, find the old at Classmates.com:
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5530/12/_/643449/_/963250059/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > 
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Want to be the first to know?  
> > Be the first to see sneak peeks of new music, movies and games!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/6693/12/_/643449/_/963342948/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Community email addresses:
> >   Post message: DTXpress@onelist.com
> >   Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@onelist.com
> >   Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> >   List owner:   DTXpress-owner@onelist.com
> > 
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> >   http://www.onelist.com/community/DTXpress
> > 
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>   bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/
> 
>   Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
>   Information and Decision Systems,
>   Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance
> 
>   Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band   
> 
> 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  bp33@...   http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/bp33/

  Carnegie Mellon University, Class of 2000
  Information and Decision Systems,
  Human Computer Interaction, and Jazz Performance

  Tartan Ice Hockey     Quiddity    Kiltie Band