Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "emf" <liberatusvirus@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "daddykingcool" 
<daddykingcool@y...> 
> wrote:
>  
> > Will do and thnaks again.  Out of interest when a drummer moves 
> from 
> > an acoustic kit to electronic does he/she need to drastically 
> adjust 
> > their technique?  When I explained to the person I purcahsed the 
> kit 
> > from about the problem of pads not sounding his reply was:
> > 
> > "You appear to be having difficulty with the kit, i can assure 
you 
> > that all electronic kits except top of the range ones function 
in 
> > this way. There is an expectation you would change your drumming 
> > style to suit the kit, as they are not as responsive as real 
> drums.  
> > You would need to have bought a kit with mesh heads. Also when 
> > playing live most drummers use the kit to trigger samples rather 
> > than rely on the on board sounds. May i suggest you go to a 
music 
> > shop and try another kit which will hopefully reassure you that 
i 
> > have not sold you a defective unit" 
> > 
> > Is this a fair reply?
> > 
> 
> Darrell,
> 
> There is an element of truth in what your seller told you. 
Problems 
> like crosstalk and the machine-gun effect come with the territory, 
> and they require an adjustment in expectations and technique--and 
> sometimes, as he says, in the particular electronic kit that you 
> ultimately choose. Electronic drums are instruments in their own 
> right, not simply approximations of their acoustic counterparts. 
> There have been many discussions, on this board and others, about 
the 
> extent to which people should consider e-drums and acoustics as 
> overlapping media. They are unquestionably variations on a similar 
> theme, but they diverge enough in their capacities to merit 
genuine 
> distinction, even though certain people (I being one of them) are 
> more interested in creating good acoustic-like sounds than in 
mining 
> the electronic side. 
> 
> Part of the difference is how you play them. When it comes to 
> physical exertion, electronic drums show the law of diminishing 
> returns far more quickly. Beyond a certain threshold, hitting them 
> any harder won't have any value. Not only do you court physical 
> injury when overplaying rubber pads; you can also mis-hit in a way 
> that causes dropouts in the sound or false triggers of one sort or 
> another or damage your equipment. And you won't get any louder for 
> your trouble (the difference in dynamic range and sensitivity 
between 
> acoustics and electronics is well in favor the former--no matter 
what 
> kit you play). You learn to let the module do the work. For 
example, 
> we've often advised newcomers having trouble with the performance 
of 
> their Yamaha cymbals to crash with more of a glancing blow than a 
> direct hit. Whenever a stick maintains contact with a cymbal for 
too 
> long, it risks having the cymbal behave in a contrary manner--
either 
> choking itself or voicing inopportunely. The same is true of, say, 
a 
> kick drum. If you're used to holding your pedal against your 
acoustic 
> bass drum and bring the same tendency to your elecronics, you're 
> courting unwanted double triggers. Learning how to program and 
play 
> your electronics over time pays huge dividends; it will become 
second 
> nature, without interfering with your acoustic technique. These 
are 
> just some examples of what playing a rubber kit entails. You trade 
a 
> certain kind of sensitivity, tonality, and subtlety for 
extraordinary 
> versatility when moving from acoustics to electronics.
> 
> High-end e-kits behave, feel, and sound differently from the entry 
> level, more like acoustic kits in certain respects, though still 
only 
> approximately. Mesh head pads are built with shells like acoustic 
> drums, and the mesh heads look and feel (some more than others) 
like 
> mylar heads. They encourage the illusion of playing acoustics, but 
> many people find these woven heads, particularly those from 
Roland, 
> Pintech, and a few other companies, too bouncy. Mesh heads, 
however, 
> have represented a higher order of e-drum for a long time, though 
> some people prefer rubber. The Yamaha DTXtremeIIS uses a certain 
kind 
> of textured rubber that feels far superior to that on any other 
kit--
> whether a Yamaha, a Roland, a Pintech, et al.--but it cannot be 
> classified as entry-level. To its everlasting credit, it costs far 
> less than the Roland' top of the line TD-20 and gives Yamaha's 
> characteristic bang for the buck. 
> 
> Cymbals also show a hierarchy based on how well they simulate the 
> appearance and response of acoustics. Companies like Hart, 
> Smartrigger, and Pintech offer high-quality cymbals that often, 
but 
> not always, mate well with Yamaha modules. Mix and match is fun, 
but 
> it must be done with care. Not everything will work smoothly and 
> effectively in a Yamaha context. Most after-market equipment is 
> manufactured to meet Roland specifications, since Roland is the 
> market leader by far. But some companies have shown a willingness 
to 
> design specifically for Yamaha--a couple of them, Visu-lite and 
> Pintech (now linked) in direct response to us. Smartrigger has 
also 
> been working with a couple of us to produce Yamaha versions of 
their 
> attractive products; it remains to be seen how successful they 
will 
> be.
> 
> The statement that e-drummers who play live tend to trigger 
samples 
> rather than use the stock voices in modules also has an element of 
> truth. Creating and triggering your own samples, or choosing them 
> from the countless offerings in computer software, can bring more 
> control to your sound. But it comes at great cost, in money, time, 
> and convenience. Drum modules are simply easier to use than 
> combinations of samplers, trigger interfaces, and computers. Also, 
a 
> few modules at this point have a limited sampling capacity of 
their 
> own (DTXtremeIIS, ddrum4, and Alessis Pro). Many drummers use 
their 
> modules unembellished for stage work, whether a DTXpress or 
something 
> more expensive. They can sound really stunning live--their warts, 
> like the machine-gun effect, often effectively disguised by 
effects, 
> room ambience, programming, and judicious playing. Nothing in the 
> world dictates that you can't like the voices on your module. Look 
> closely and you'll see the ddrum modules in Peter Gabriel's stage 
> arsenal; Tony Verderosa and Akira Jimbo use Yamaha, Neil Pert 
Roland--
> well, you get the idea.  You'll be able to appreciate what you 
have--
> until you have the cash, need, or desire to move to something else 
> (upgrading, or simply changing, is an occupational hazard among e-
> drummers, not unlike what audiophiles do).
> 
> I've run my mouth, er fingers, off more than I intended, and I've 
> barely scratched the surface about e-drums. Hopefully, I've helped 
a 
> little bit.

Hi Ed

OK, I have now spent many hours playing around with settings and 
have managed to improve the kit.  The problem of missing sounds is 
almost gone.

I experimented with the Rejection settings, the gain, and set the 
pads to poly mode.

The main setting that made a difference was the rejection settings.  
This took quite a bit of experimenting - if set very low solved my 
problem but then I got double triggers instead - so I had to tweak 
for a compromise.

Everything else about the kit (sound, feel etc) I think is great but 
still don't really understand why this problem exists.  

I really cannot see how changeing my drumming style will make a 
difference.  For example I sat just hitting the Hi Hat and snare 
together and the snare missed quite a few beats - I did the same 
with a tom and the Hi Hat and the Tom then missed odd beats. 

I notice that many people selling these kits on E-bay have built a 
custom snare stand.  I guess this is so that they can turn the 
rejection down to avoid missed snare beats but yet still not get 
double triggers - does this make sense.  It must be a common problem.

I was wondering if the DTEXPRESS I is more prone to this than the 
version II or III - has this problem been addressed.

Many thanks for your help.

Darrell
> 
> Ed