That's great about the rhythmic patch files!
And you are absolutely correct about the utility of asking people to simply
share patches out of location 128 (a, b or c? or does it matter?). Clearly a
new o.s. that loads automatically into a temp space will be greatly
appreciated.
I also hear what you are saying regarding file size. The simpler the better,
less rules is better too. I had asked dave earlier on in beta about this
issue regarding loading patches into a particular place, regardless of where
they had come from, but it was too late.
We need a standalone utility actually to do all this for us. I wish I could
write one, but I don't have those skills currently.
Ravi
>From: "mr julian" <jujulilianan@...>
>Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
>Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 12:43:13 +1100
>
>
>As far as patch trading/sharing goes, I've got this to say:
>
>I thought that earlier on, Ravi was talking about only ever sending single
>patches with number 128. This makes sense to me, as if you have a directory
>of patches you want to audition one at a time, you can send them to the
>evolver one at a time, and they will only ever load into the one "scratch"
>location, where you can audition them. If you want to save a particular
>patch, then it's up to you to copy it to another spare location in your
>evolver. All this would require is that whoever dumps the patches to their
>computer, first copies them to location 128, then dumps them.
>
>I guarantee it will save a lot of people the pain of trashed work in the
>future if we do this one thing. And anyway - the idea of a scratch patch,
>with a user interface like the evolver's, is something that should really
>be
>encouraged.
>
>As for .mid and .syx, the obvious choice seems, to me, to be .syx.... a
>.mid
>file is simply a .syx message wrapped up in a standard MIDI file. We may as
>well just make it a sysex message, as any sequencer should be able to
>import
>.syx files, for anyone who wants to use a sequencer. While the .syx format
>is great for bulk loader programs, which may or may not choke on a .mid
>file. Plus, a .syx file saves (an albeit tiny) amount of storage and
>transmission space.
>
>As far as sorting single/bank/wave dumps, the easiest thing would be to
>keep
>them in different directories. They're different things!
>The other thing to keep in mind, is that if they do get mixed up you can
>easily sort them out again by their actual file size.
>
>Oh well...
>
>One more thing. I've been spending a bit of time lately making up some
>rhythmic audio processing patches with the evolver. If I get them dumped to
>my PC this weekend, would I put them up in the "files" section of this
>group, or just on my own web space?
>
>
>
>julian
>
>
>--
>http://bleepin.com - "Got Bleep?"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@...>
> >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 20:05:03 -0500
> >
> >I hear you when you say that without patch *and* bank indications then
>the
> >alphebetizing will lay the banks after the a patches. But really, how
>many
> >bank files are there going to be as opposed to patch files.
> >
> >I can compromise if you feel a strong need to indicate patch, but given
> >that
> >the vast majority of patch files will be single files, it seems like a
>lot
> >of "patch" nomenclature when such is the norm, not the exception like a
> >bank file.
> >
> >I agree with the idea to have 3 digits follwing the bank letter. That
>makes
> >sense totally
> >
> >I can't get behind the idea of p and b for patch and bank, because while
> >perhaps more streamlined, streamlining should not sacrifice easy
> >comprehension. For a newcomer, what is p and b supposed to mean? Can't
>say
> >that the term bank is too confusion. For the same reason I don't like two
> >letter abreivations, because why should a creator or a user have to refer
> >to
> >some list to get it right or figure out what it is. Your list is a good
> >start though, although I think we should expand it to three or even four
> >letters where necessary. Like the patch name, I think we should do two
> >things in regard to category naming. First we should not ask for a set
> >amount of letters. i.e. people should be able to use bass and lead and
>org
> >if they want. But we should simulaneously like you have started to do,
>set
> >forth a "suggested" list of terms for category definition.
> >
> >Ravi
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >From: "ski_ex5tech <ex5tech@...>" <ex5tech@...>
> > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
> > >Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 00:53:17 -0000
> > >
> > >Well, if you really want to streamline... technically, you don't need
> > >the word "bank" in front of the bank files,
> > >either. "organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" would be recognizable as a
> > >patch file because of the "A005" location,
> > >whereas "RIS_electronica.C.syx" and "SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" would
> > >be recognized as bank files because of the "C" and the "ALL" location
> > >designations.
> > >
> > >I appreciate and agree with the need to streamline, but I still think
> > >there's merit to putting *something* at the very beginning of the
> > >filename to indicate whether it's a single patch, or a bank file (or
> > >maybe someday a waveform file). It would sure make things easier to
> > >sort. If you only label the bank files, then your list of files
> > >starts with some patch files that begin with "a" and some "b"s, goes
> > >through all the bank files, then finishes with all the rest of the
> > >patch files.
> > >
> > >How do you feel about a single letter to designate patch vs. bank as
> > >a prefix in the filename? Something like:
> > >
> > >
> > >"p.organ.RIS_hamncheese.A005.mid" and "b.RIS_electronica.C.syx"
> > >
> > >
> > >BTW, we might consider the practice of always using three digit
> > >numbers in the patch location. Given that they'll be a text string
> > >with the bank letter in front of them, sticking with three digits
> > >will make it a lot easier to sort in a database!
> > >
> > >
> > >Another way to streamline would be to use two character category
> > >abbreviations. Following is what is used in the EX5 (just as a
> > >starting point for conversation):
> > >
> > >Pf - Piano (used for piano, electric piano, clavinet, harpsichord,
> > >etc.)
> > >Cp - Chromatic Percussion (tuned percussion like agogos and timpani)
> > >Or - Organ
> > >Gt - Guitar
> > >Ba - Bass
> > >St - Strings/Orchestral
> > >En - Ensemble (combos like strings/brass, etc.)
> > >Br - Brass (like trumpet, t-bone)
> > >Rd - Reed (like sax, clarinet)
> > >Pi - Pipe (like flute)
> > >Ld - Lead Synth
> > >Pd - Synth Pad
> > >Fx - Synth Sound Effects
> > >Et - Ethnic
> > >Pc - Percussive
> > >Se - Sound Effects
> > >Dr - Drums
> > >Sc - Synth Comping
> > >Vo - Vocal
> > >Co - Combination
> > >Wv - Material Wave (read that "single cycle waveforms")
> > >Sq - Sequence
> > >
> > >While not perfect, this list isn't a bad starting point, though among
> > >other things, the "Wv" category obviously has no meaning for patches
> > >(this same list of categories is used to classify samples).
> > >
> > >
> > >Yet another way to streamline/shorten: The patch/bank name portion
> > >of the filename could be limited to a certain number of characters,
> > >like 12 or 15 or whatever.
> > >
> > >
> > >Ski
> > >www.ex5tech.com
> > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > >
> > >
> > >--- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Ivan Sharma"
> > ><noision1@h...> wrote:
> > > > Good. I think that "patch" is redundant though. I am trying to
> > >streamline everything. If it doesn't have a special "bank" ("wave"?)
> > >prefix, then it is a patch.
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Ski <ex5tech@e...>
> > > > To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2003 3:36 AM
> > > > Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I agree with your statements below.
> > > >
> > > > Location IS needed for a bank file, since a bank file can be
> > >either a
> > > > single bank, or all three banks. And yes, I agree that
> > >the "sound
> > > > category" really isn't needed for banks. If we used it, 99% of
> > >them
> > > > would be "Misc". I like your idea to actually put the
> > >text "bank" at
> > > > the BEGINNING of the filename (rather than denoting it in the end
> > > > where I'd put it); that keeps bank files sorted together in a
> > >long
> > > > file list. We're going to put the text "patch" in front of all
> > >the
> > > > single patch files, too? Actually, if we get the sample import
> > >thing
> > > > worked out, it might be a real good idea to include the
> > >text "patch"
> > > > in front of a single patch file. Who knows, we might
> > >have "sample"
> > > > files too someday!
> > > >
> > > > Author initials for single patch files is an excellent idea.
> > >Maybe
> > > > it could be optional for bank files, too, for those banks that
> > >are
> > > > done entirely by one author; I don't know... there'd be a bit of
> > > > redundancy with the documentation's list of patches. I also
> > >think
> > > > your UNDERSCORE, rather than another PERIOD to separate author
> > >from
> > > > patch/bank name was insightful. Given that author can be
> > >optional,
> > > > the underscore allows for consistent parsing of the entire
> > >filename,
> > > > because they'd all have the same number of periods in them (i.e.
> > >you
> > > > could easily programmatically put everything into a real database
> > >at
> > > > some point).
> > > >
> > > > OK, so here's the next round of examples:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Single Patches (same as last time, but with "patch" in front)
> > > > --------------
> > > > "patch.bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid"
> > > > "patch.lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > >
> > > > Banks
> > > > -----
> > > > "bank.RIS_electronica.B.syx" - (a one bank file that loads to
> > >bank B)
> > > > "bank.SKI_trancevested.ALL.mid" - (a three bank file)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps the words "patch" and "bank" could be abbreviated
> > >to "pch"
> > > > and "bnk".
> > > >
> > > > And yes... if we get the new feature implemented that let's you
> > >load
> > > > a patch into any desired location, we can drop the location from
> > >the
> > > > file name.
> > > >
> > > > BTW - What do you know about me and "DX squeals"? Who have you
> > >been
> > > > talking to?! I have way too much FM gear... You didn't get any
> > >of
> > > > my DX patch banks back in the early/mid 80's, did you?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ski
> > > > www.ex5tech.com
> > > > EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > > http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Sharma" <noision1@h...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > I wasn't thinking in terms of strict databases, but that
> > >certainly
> > > > can be
> > > > > done later with ease once enought actual patches (and then
> > >later
> > > > banks) are
> > > > > created. First, if we stick to collecting individual files we
> > >can
> > > > simply
> > > > > have a list or folder containing files file name that includes
> > >the
> > > > author's
> > > > > initials (optional) (waldorf style) but stated first rather
> > >than
> > > > after (for
> > > > > sorting ease) hence:
> > > > >
> > > > > "category.initials_sound-name.location.suffix"
> > > > >
> > > > > e.g. "bass.RIS_moog1.B45.mid" or "lead.SKI_dxsqueal.A13.syx"
> > > > >
> > > > > After we have enough single patches to make up banks, then
> > >anyone
> > > > can simply
> > > > > construct banks adhering (hopefully) to the following naming
> > >format:
> > > > >
> > > > > "bank.name-of-bank.suffix" (is location of bank required? If so
> > > > then
> > > > > bank.name-of-bank.location.suffix")
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't believe a category is necessary for banks since the
> > >name
> > > > can be
> > > > > descriptive itself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Once there are bank files, they should be accompanied by a
> > >simple
> > > > readme.txt
> > > > > file that lists the included patches. Indeed a proper zipped
> > >bank
> > > > package
> > > > > should have the bank file, the readme.txt file and all the
> > > > individual files
> > > > > zipped up and all represented in both .mid and .syx format.
> > > > >
> > > > > Databases for the purpose listing these things can be made by
> > > > individuals
> > > > > such as you me or anyone whenever. The only thing I see
> > >technically
> > > > missing
> > > > > from the naming spec is a create date, however i am unsure how
> > > > important
> > > > > such is. Technically the original file uploaded should have a
> > >date
> > > > stamp.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think we are making progress towards a standard naming scheme
> > > > which will
> > > > > be helpful to maintain maximum user information and sortability.
> > > > >
> > > > > Of course, if Dave implements the highly desired compare/temp
> > >patch
> > > > which
> > > > > will load any new single file into the temp patch location,
> > >then we
> > > > can do
> > > > > away with the location field completely (except perhaps for
> > >bank
> > > > files if
> > > > > necessary at all). Technically all the fields except name and
> > > > suffix become
> > > > > optional (although desired). Currently we really *need* the
> > > > location if
> > > > > anyone is know where the patch will be loaded.
> > > > >
> > > > > Ravi
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >From: "Ski <ex5tech@e...>" <ex5tech@e...>
> > > > > >Reply-To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >To: DSI_Evolver@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >Subject: [Evolver] Re: Patch Contest / User Forum Soundset
> > > > > >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:46:35 -0000
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Establishing a good set of sound categories, and a standard
> > > > > >nomenclature for the filenames IS still quite important. It
> > >will
> > > > be
> > > > > >a HUGE asset as the list of user files grows. It will also
> > >make
> > > > > >keeping such a database doable. We have tons of EX5 format
> > >files.
> > > > > >The EX5 has categories built into the file names, however, some
> > > > > >people don't use them, or don't use them well. As a result,
> > >it's a
> > > > > >lot more difficult prospect for us to create a *useful*
> > >database of
> > > > > >EX5 patches (or "Voices", as Yamaha calls them). We're
> > >working on
> > > > > >it, though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I thought of one other little problem regarding Evolver FILE
> > > > > >nomenclature with respect to the database you'd like to make,
> > >Ravi.
> > > > > >Given that SOME files will be BANK files, we'll need to be
> > >sure
> > > > that
> > > > > >all BANK files come with a complete patch list, too. Patch
> > >names
> > > > on
> > > > > >the patch list would need to use the same format nomenclature
> > >as
> > > > the
> > > > > >single patch file names. Your database would then need a
> > >minimum
> > > > of
> > > > > >four fields:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >1) The three part patch name (category.sound_name.location)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >2) The three part file name in which the patch exists
> > > > > >(category.collection_name.location)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >3) The patch author
> > > > > >
> > > > > >4) Date authored
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ideally, you'd want to break items 1 and 2 into separate
> > >component
> > > > > >fields, giving you a total of 8 fields. Actually I guess you
> > > > *could*
> > > > > >drop the "category" and "location" part of the FILE name in the
> > > > > >database, since it would essentially be redundant with the
> > >info for
> > > > > >each of the individual patches. You'd need to keep that info
> > >in
> > > > the
> > > > > >actual name of the file, though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >BTW, this discussion is getting a bit fragged (multiple
> > > > > >threads/emails). Once this project gets underway, it might be
> > > > easier
> > > > > >to follow if we make a single project specific thread in the
> > > > EX5Tech
> > > > > >forums. Of course, that's only if everyone's agreeable. I
> > >don't
> > > > > >want to risk losing participants if some of them dislike
> > >forums.
> > > > And
> > > > > >again, if we run out of space in the Yahoo group, or have any
> > >other
> > > > > >problems with people uploading files, I can get them via email
> > >and
> > > > > >host them at ex5tech.com.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Ski
> > > > > >www.ex5tech.com
> > > > > >EX5Tech Evolver forum:
> > > > > >http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum&f=23
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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Re: [Evolver] Re: Patch/Bank File Nomenclature
2003-01-10 by Ravi Sharma