AVR-Chat

G'day all

With the cost of running our businesses ever increasing
I have been re-assessing my business insurance requirements
an have been canvassing ideas from a few colleagues. Then
I thought I would cast the net wider, and even if only the
Australian conditions would be applicable, I would not
mind receiving overseas' views and experiences.

I'm not asking about the round of the mill fire, income,
sickness insurance but more specifically about public
liability, product liability and professional indemnity.

The story so far:

Worker's compensation is compulsory in Australia if
you operate as a company. Should look at some other
form of accident insurance if you don't.

Public liability and product liability are pretty much
tied together for those of us that manufacture some goods.
Those of us who simply design or write software for
third parties may get away with public liability, HOWEVER
read on.

The old fashioned 5 million dollars insurance is no longer
good enough and a 10 millions dollar insurance or even 20
million is necessary.

THE KILLER PART!! If a disaster happens and someone dies
or your product starts a fire that burns down a shopping
centre or other major disaster and the fault occurred
because of a faulty design or formula (software bug??)
then you are NOT COVERED by your public and product
liability insurance. This is when you need professional
indemnity insurance. A friend of mine almost had a heart
attack when he checked his insurance and found out that
he did not seem to have professional indemnity insurance.
(he designs and manufactures his own products)

So far it seems that only GIO, NRMA and CGU seem to
offer the above types of insurance in Australia.
ABBI does not offer any insurance for electrical engineers
or anything else that has to do with electricity.

I would very much appreciate your views, experience, knowledge,
etc. and which insurance companies you deal with apart from the
above.

If only I knew all that is required to run a business 15 years
ago.....

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

On Saturday 03 September 2005 06:19, John Samperi wrote:

> This is when you need professional indemnity insurance. A friend
> of mine almost had a heart attack when he checked his insurance
> and found out that he did not seem to have professional indemnity
> insurance.  (he designs and manufactures his own products)

> So far it seems that only GIO, NRMA and CGU seem to offer the
> above types of insurance in Australia.  ABBI does not offer any
> insurance for electrical engineers or anything else that has to do
> with electricity.

Insurance companies are very conservative at accepting your risks.
You have to pay them exhorbidant amounts to accept what are in
reality; tiny risks. The justification they use is that they have to
cover themselves against being sued.

I enquired about professional indemnity insurance (PII) when
starting my business (6 years ago) but it was then too expensive
(more than what I envisaged to be my salary) for what I wanted to
do.  They have in effect; stifled innovation. It doesn't hurt me
financially not to do what I wanted to do; but it doesn't serve
society as well as it could.

When I first worked as a Professional Engineer, my employer at the
time thought it would be a good idea for *me* to pay for the
newly-invented PII, which then worked out at around quarter of my
salary (back in the mid 1980's).  After a day of thinking about it I
would be happy pay on the proviso that I be contracted as a
Consultant Professional Engineer for the same number of hours (50 to
90/week at the time) at market rates.  I was "surprised" that the
employer then accepted the PII risk in their corporate product
liability policy.

The software industry has huge disclaimers with which we're all
familiar. In practice, most of the disclaimers are probably void.
Unless the end-user explicitly accepts (in writing) that the product
performs as specified and accepts the consequences of software
failure, then the product liability issue remains with the vendor.
Any warranty (liability) is AT MOST limited to rectification of the
software; up to the value of the purchase price.

Fortunately for other software vendors, end users have become
accustomed to software that doesn't work reliably at all, so any
claims will have to be rather non-trivial to be successful.

> I would very much appreciate your views, experience, knowledge,
> etc. and which insurance companies you deal with apart from the
> above.

I do my business insurance through a broker, but check that their
policies cover what's needed and that their fees are competitive.
I've heard of some brokers steadily increasing their margin with
their "steady customers".

My view on PII is that it is actually a positive feedback system.
It encourages "profit through litigation" operators to engage the
services of well-insured incompetents to make products which are
inherently less safe (and btw efficient, reliable, etc) than they
could be; and then lurk until somebody gets hurt or killed.

> If only I knew all that is required to run a business 15 years
> ago.....

You wouldn't have started!

-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
 X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \  and postings          | to help me spread!

At 11:01 AM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
>I enquired about professional indemnity insurance (PII) when
>starting my business (6 years ago) but it was then too expensive
>(more than what I envisaged to be my salary)

OUCH! Well unless you get China like wages :-)

>Any warranty (liability) is AT MOST limited to rectification of the
>software; up to the value of the purchase price.

So...lot's of fine print at the back of the invoice..

>I do my business insurance through a broker,

I have a couple of brokers looking at my insurance now, but
so far they only come up with more questions every few days.
No $$$ yet

>You wouldn't have started!

True, but then I had made myself a promise that I would
NEVER work for another company after seeing what James
Hardie did to the company I was working for :'( for which
I had put in my heart and soul for about 12 yeas.


Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

John Samperi wrote:

>>You wouldn't have started!
> 
> 
> True, but then I had made myself a promise that I would
> NEVER work for another company after seeing what James
> Hardie did to the company I was working for :'( for which
> I had put in my heart and soul for about 12 yeas.
> 
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi

Which company John ????

Regards,

Kat. (Ex Mil Access Control Systems)

-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
K.A.Q. Electronics	Website: www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
IM: Yahoo: PinkyDwaggy  MSN: katinka@kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
For Everything Electronics     Phone: 0419 923 731
---------------------------------------------------------------	


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 2/09/2005

At 12:57 PM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
>Which company John ????
>
>Kat. (Ex Mil Access Control Systems)

FFE (Fire Fighting Enterprises or was it Farm Fresh Eggs :-) )
Of course they also owned Access Control in Brookvale, the
first computer we had was a Z80 based Access Control system
computer because they were too stingy to get a proper
development system.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

<< Usual disclaimers ;-) Informal advice only, speak to someone who really knows 
what they are talking about prior to taking any follow-on action after all this 
is the net & I could just be a talking dog that can type >>

> The story so far: 
> Worker's compensation is compulsory in Australia if
> you operate as a company. Should look at some other
> form of accident insurance if you don't.

In Queensland at least, Worker's compensation is mandatory if you employ others. 
If you are the company director / sole employees then you are exempt. In QLD the 
definition of a worker has been dramatically revised & may include independent 
contractors which come to your premises & use your equipment. In short they have 
extended it to just about everybody aside from yourself... Directors are expendable.

> Public liability and product liability are pretty much
> tied together for those of us that manufacture some goods.
> Those of us who simply design or write software for
> third parties may get away with public liability, HOWEVER
> read on.
> 
> The old fashioned 5 million dollars insurance is no longer
> good enough and a 10 millions dollar insurance or even 20
> million is necessary.

PL of $10-20M is a common requirement but isn't that expensive & not that 
difficult to obtain.  Most clients won't even look at you without it.
> 
> THE KILLER PART!! If a disaster happens and someone dies
> or your product starts a fire that burns down a shopping
> centre or other major disaster and the fault occurred
> because of a faulty design or formula (software bug??)
> then you are NOT COVERED by your public and product
> liability insurance. This is when you need professional
> indemnity insurance. A friend of mine almost had a heart
> attack when he checked his insurance and found out that
> he did not seem to have professional indemnity insurance.
> (he designs and manufactures his own products)

Product liability Insurance covers defective products that you sell, 
Professional Indemnity covers the opinions and advice that you give in a 
Professional capacity.

Product Liability is a vast unknown & is dependant on the type of product & 
market, not to mention the Companies past history.

$5M is a common PI requirement, but becoming increasingly difficult to obtain. 
The kicker is that after years of scaring everyone with horror stories to 
encourage people to require/buy bigger policies the Insurance Industry has done 
a back flip and doesn't want to write the insurance! They have discovered that 
selling a $5M policy to someone that would be adequately covered by a $1M 
actually just makes them potentially liable for a higher risk if the issue goes 
to court. Figure that! ( & that IS directly from the horses mouth).

Trouble is that now the Client's company lawyers want all contractors on-site to 
be covered by ridiculously high policy values & the insurance companies are 
reluctant to issue the policies.

> So far it seems that only GIO, NRMA and CGU seem to
> offer the above types of insurance in Australia.
> ABBI does not offer any insurance for electrical engineers
> or anything else that has to do with electricity.

APESMA has a deal with CGU, it provided PI/PL at 50% the price of the nearest 
competitive quote that I got from any other company, including others that 
quoted CGU as the insurer.  ( APESMA also gives good deals on Accom, car rentals 
and just about everything else ;-) If you join, tell them I sent you, I get a 
credit!

Cheers

Don Ingram

John Samperi wrote:

> At 12:57 PM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
> 
>>Which company John ????
>>
>>Kat. (Ex Mil Access Control Systems)
> 
> 
> FFE (Fire Fighting Enterprises or was it Farm Fresh Eggs :-) )
> Of course they also owned Access Control in Brookvale, the
> first computer we had was a Z80 based Access Control system
> computer because they were too stingy to get a proper
> development system.
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi

Did you do much work with the Access systems ??

They still use the z80 lol (well the bigger version the Z8000)

Regards,

Kat.


-- 
---------------------------------------------------------------
K.A.Q. Electronics	Website: www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
IM: Yahoo: PinkyDwaggy  MSN: katinka@kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
For Everything Electronics     Phone: 0419 923 731
---------------------------------------------------------------	


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.18/89 - Release Date: 2/09/2005

At 01:37 PM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
>Did you do much work with the Access systems ??

No, I only knew a few of the people there. When they
combined Access control with another division they
moved quite a long way from where I was.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

At 01:12 PM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
>I could just be a talking dog that can type >>

And if I was your owner I'd be rich :-)

>PL of $10-20M is a common requirement but isn't that expensive & not that
>difficult to obtain.  Most clients won't even look at you without it.
................
>Product liability Insurance covers defective products that you sell,

The ABBI website (SA) points out the if the defect is a result
of an incorrect formula (bad design?) then you are no longer
covered by Public or Product liability it seems. And another
very interesting thing, if you buy your parts from an Australian
distributor then the insurance will pursue them if a fault
causing damage or death occurs, HOWEVER if you bring in the
parts in yourself i.i. Internet purchase then you are deemed to
be the manufacture and the liability stays with you!

>Professional Indemnity covers the opinions and advice that you give in a
>Professional capacity.

So what covers an incorrect design? A power miscalculation for a power
resistor could cause a fire, is there anything that will cover a genuine
mistake?

>APESMA has a deal with CGU, it provided PI/PL at 50% the price

Interesting stuff on their website. ~$500.00 a year membership??
I guess it's alright if they save you that much in insurance.
Public liability insurance does not have a hyper link like other
insurances.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

John Samperi wrote:

>>Product liability Insurance covers defective products that you sell,
> 
> 
> The ABBI website (SA) points out the if the defect is a result
> of an incorrect formula (bad design?) then you are no longer
> covered by Public or Product liability it seems. 

That is the Professional "opinion" aspect of the operation hence PI insurance.

> And another
> very interesting thing, if you buy your parts from an Australian
> distributor then the insurance will pursue them if a fault
> causing damage or death occurs, HOWEVER if you bring in the
> parts in yourself i.i. Internet purchase then you are deemed to
> be the manufacture and the liability stays with you!

That is a very interesting point of which I wasn't aware. Makes buying Newark 
via Farkinell (oops Freudian slip ) more appealing than Digikey when the 
opportunity is available.

> 
>>Professional Indemnity covers the opinions and advice that you give in a
>>Professional capacity.
> 
> So what covers an incorrect design? A power miscalculation for a power
> resistor could cause a fire, is there anything that will cover a genuine
> mistake?
I don't know but I suspect that there is No such thing. After all Lawyers and 
Accountants don't make them, do they ;-) I would suspect that a genuine mistake 
would translate to a 'failure to adequately inspect' at the end of the process 
but I do know what you mean.

>>APESMA has a deal with CGU, it provided PI/PL at 50% the price
> 
> Interesting stuff on their website. ~$500.00 a year membership??
> I guess it's alright if they save you that much in insurance.
> Public liability insurance does not have a hyper link like other
> insurances.

Between Insurance, car rental, and accommodation it has paid for itself many 
many times over.  The good thing re car rental is that it reduces the $3K excess 
to $700 ( Or $100 for $15 fee ) as well as a direct car discount.

Speaking of Accommodation, are you going to the SMCBA conference at the Show 
grounds this year?

-- 
Cheers

Don Ingram

> Speaking of Accommodation, are you going to the SMCBA conference at the Show 
> grounds this year?
> 
I'd better add that I'm at the Ibis, not looking for digs ;-)

-- 
Cheers

Don

At 02:05 PM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
>Speaking of Accommodation, are you going to the SMCBA conference at the Show
>grounds this year?

Don't know. Does it cost money? :-$ I will be displaying one
of my products at the Austronics show...well in a round about
way :-) I'm loaning one of my electronic moving message sign
(they are REALLY moving to the point of making you cry :-) )
to BEC...it's like a Clayton's stand..."the stand you have
when you don't have a stand". So I will be at the show
on Thursday afternoon to look around and then collect my wares.

No accommodation required for this one for me ;-)

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

> 
> Don't know. Does it cost money? :-$ 
'Bout $300/day. A bunch of us are doing the IPC CID+ course.

It's the Australian nanoscopic version of PCB East.

I will be displaying one
> of my products at the Austronics show...well in a round about
> way :-) I'm loaning one of my electronic moving message sign
> (they are REALLY moving to the point of making you cry :-) )
> to BEC...it's like a Clayton's stand..."the stand you have
> when you don't have a stand". 
Even better if it's the stand you have that you don't have to pay for ;-)

So I will be at the show

> on Thursday afternoon to look around and then collect my wares.
> 
> No accommodation required for this one for me ;-)
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi

On Saturday 03 September 2005 10:47, John Samperi wrote:
> At 11:01 AM 3/09/2005, you wrote:
> >I enquired about professional indemnity insurance (PII) when
> >starting my business (6 years ago) but it was then too expensive
> >(more than what I envisaged to be my salary)
>
> OUCH! Well unless you get China like wages :-)

$4k/month insurance.

> >Any warranty (liability) is AT MOST limited to rectification of the
> >software; up to the value of the purchase price.
>
> So...lot's of fine print at the back of the invoice..

Well yes. Depending on the product and the customer, you can get
them to sign off to accept that it does what they want. You walk
them through any testing process that may be applicable so that they
are ready to accept that it works "correctly".

-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
 X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \  and postings          | to help me spread!

On Saturday 03 September 2005 11:12, Don Ingram wrote:
> > The story so far:
> > Worker's compensation is compulsory in Australia if
> > you operate as a company. Should look at some other
> > form of accident insurance if you don't.

> In Queensland at least, Worker's compensation is mandatory if you
> employ others. If you are the company director / sole employees
> then you are exempt. In QLD the definition of a worker has been
> dramatically revised & may include independent contractors which
> come to your premises & use your equipment. In short they have
> extended it to just about everybody aside from yourself...
> Directors are expendable.

Pretty much the case in WA. Directors can be insured by Worker's
Comp. but it's likely that the insurer will never pay anyway. The
government actually sees sense in accepting that. Directors work
under their own direction so they cannot insure themselves.

Accident insurance is a worthwhile "extra" for directors. Something
to pay the bills while you're laid up in hospital.

> $5M is a common PI requirement, but becoming increasingly
> difficult to obtain. The kicker is that after years of scaring
> everyone with horror stories to encourage people to require/buy
> bigger policies the Insurance Industry has done a back flip and
> doesn't want to write the insurance!  They have discovered that
> selling a $5M policy to someone that would be adequately covered
> by a $1M actually just makes them potentially liable for a higher
> risk if the issue goes to court. Figure that! ( & that IS directly
> from the horses mouth).

The case of blood from a stone.

Insurers scared themselves more than anybody else. There were a
flurry of huge claims when Lloyds wasn't able to cover its
liabilities and the underwriters had to feed themselves somehow so
the ire of PI risk became the catch-cry. As you note; the insurers
have begun to realize that they're only creating trouble for
themselves.

-- 
/"\ Bernd Felsche - Innovative Reckoning, Perth, Western Australia
\ /  ASCII ribbon campaign | I'm a .signature virus!
 X   against HTML mail     | Copy me into your ~/.signature
/ \  and postings          | to help me spread!

John, 

Interesting question.  I am in the medical field in the US, and 
around here it is a medical liability feeding frenzy.  It costs a 
ton, evne when one has never had a suit filed.  My understanding is 
that other countries are not nearly as bad, but still if you cause a 
major disaster, then you will be asked to pay, even if you are 
innocent.

For what I pay in medical liability, an aquaintance told me that it 
is the same cost for his company's (70 million$ a year gross) 
coverage, and they do stuff that can create a major toxic disaster.

So, I bet the coverage can be had easily and probably relatively 
cheaply.

The other option is make yourself judgement-proof.  If the 
corporation has no significant assets, then a judgement will 
bankrupt the corp.  You walk away and start business all over 
again.  You just need to insulate yourself from the business.  That 
might be hard if you are the sole proprietor, or are the owner of a 
small corp.  If that is the case, then you need to make YOURSELF 
judgement proof.  That is harder to do.  The laws in the US vary 
somewhat on this, but where I live the courts can not take stuff 
that is held in joint ownership with your spouse, unless the spouse 
is also liable (never work with your spouse, and have a spouse that 
you can TRUST!!!!)  So, you own nothing in you own name except the 
business, and the business owns nothing except a few pieces of 
equipment.  Lease the rest of everything you need, and pay yourself 
a salary with the rest of the capital.  Net value of you and your 
business:  nill.  Since I _think_ these laws are based on english 
common law, yours may be similar.

-Tony




--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, John Samperi <samperi@a...> wrote:

> G'day all
> 
> With the cost of running our businesses ever increasing
> I have been re-assessing my business insurance requirements
> an have been canvassing ideas from a few colleagues. Then
> I thought I would cast the net wider, and even if only the
> Australian conditions would be applicable, I would not
> mind receiving overseas' views and experiences.
> 
> I'm not asking about the round of the mill fire, income,
> sickness insurance but more specifically about public
> liability, product liability and professional indemnity.
> 
> The story so far:
> 
> Worker's compensation is compulsory in Australia if
> you operate as a company. Should look at some other
> form of accident insurance if you don't.
> 
> Public liability and product liability are pretty much
> tied together for those of us that manufacture some goods.
> Those of us who simply design or write software for
> third parties may get away with public liability, HOWEVER
> read on.
> 
> The old fashioned 5 million dollars insurance is no longer
> good enough and a 10 millions dollar insurance or even 20
> million is necessary.
> 
> THE KILLER PART!! If a disaster happens and someone dies
> or your product starts a fire that burns down a shopping
> centre or other major disaster and the fault occurred
> because of a faulty design or formula (software bug??)
> then you are NOT COVERED by your public and product
> liability insurance. This is when you need professional
> indemnity insurance. A friend of mine almost had a heart
> attack when he checked his insurance and found out that
> he did not seem to have professional indemnity insurance.
> (he designs and manufactures his own products)
> 
> So far it seems that only GIO, NRMA and CGU seem to
> offer the above types of insurance in Australia.
> ABBI does not offer any insurance for electrical engineers
> or anything else that has to do with electricity.
> 
> I would very much appreciate your views, experience, knowledge,
> etc. and which insurance companies you deal with apart from the
> above.
> 
> If only I knew all that is required to run a business 15 years
> ago.....
> 
> Regards
> 
> John Samperi
> 
> ******************************************************
>                          Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
>    11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
>           Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
>                 Email: samperi@a...
>                   Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
> * Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
> ******************************************************

At 04:05 AM 4/09/2005, you wrote:
>The other option is make yourself judgement-proof.

That seems expensive also to achieve :'(

>You just need to insulate yourself from the business.  That
>might be hard if you are the sole proprietor, or are the owner of a
>small corp.

Because of a previous law which has now changed, you needed at
least 2 directors to form a Pty Ltd company. Now only one is
required. Both my wife and I are directors. Will look at
changing that.

 >but where I live the courts can not take stuff
>that is held in joint ownership with your spouse,

That's interesting and will investigate further if that is
the case here too.


Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                         Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
   11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills, NSW 2153 AUSTRALIA
          Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                Email: samperi@ampertronics.com.au
                  Website  http://www.ampertronics.com.au
* Electronic Design   * Custom Products   * Contract Assembly
******************************************************

> somewhat on this, but where I live the courts can not take stuff 
> that is held in joint ownership with your spouse, unless the spouse 
> is also liable (never work with your spouse, and have a spouse that 
> you can TRUST!!!!)  So, you own nothing in you own name except the 
>

I saw an amusing sticker ( in a sad way ) the other day on the back of a car, it 
read: "You never really know your spouse until you meet them in the Family 
Court". Obviously someone embittered by a nasty divorce.

Not wanting to sound similarly embittered I would suggest regardless that you do 
make sure that you protect yourself against your spouse as well as the Client. 
Things have a small chance of going wrong with the client, but over time a large 
chance of going wrong with your spouse. If you run a small business in this 
field then you probably work under a fair bit of pressure & as a result aren't 
helping with the longevity of the marriage.

When things fly apart, normally sane & rational people have been known to get 
pretty gnarly, trust is out the window. That is not a good time to have to try 
to recover your personal share of a large portion of your lifetime, and future 
security in aging. It sounds pretty callous but don't build the structure of 
your own demise, the person you sign your assets over to now is nothing like the 
person that you will be trying to get a share back from later on.

The person in the car was obviously deeply embittered to feel the need to 
publicly display the sign but it did provide a valid warning none the less...



Cheers

Don