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RF link

RF link

2005-03-22 by Javier Fiasche

Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....

I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2 atmega8l(via USARt) and 433Mhz
transmitter and reciver module. One will work as transmiter and the other as
reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
	-----------------------------
       | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
       -----------------------------
all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the package, the mega8 will
shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
The reciever would listen to the reciver module only when it is desired,
selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to listen, i shut down the
433 reciver module
Here is the problem:
	i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and the reciver usart, because
when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i keep getting and
Framming error.
     i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the RXEN=0, till i get a
long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem to have no
effect.........
Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????

Thanks
Javier



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Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Bruce Parham

Javier Fiasche wrote:
> 
> Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
> 
> I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2 atmega8l(via USARt) and 433Mhz
> transmitter and reciver module. One will work as transmiter and the other as
> reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
>         -----------------------------
>        | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
>        -----------------------------
> all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the package, the mega8 will
> shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> The reciever would listen to the reciver module only when it is desired,
> selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to listen, i shut down the
> 433 reciver module
> Here is the problem:
>         i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and the reciver usart, because
> when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i keep getting and
> Framming error.
>      i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the RXEN=0, till i get a
> long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem to have no
> effect.........
> Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
> 
> Thanks
> Javier

Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart is triggering on noise.
I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if it has a RSS (Rx Sig Strength)
line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart. (You may need to use the 
analog comparator on the RSS signal.)

Bruce

RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Javier Fiasche

That's right the uart ist triggering on noise.
Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength output. I am using
a very cheap
Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject noise, but
digitally, ideas???
I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart to transmitt, and
trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver before setting the
reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that fine............
Thanks
Javier

-----Mensaje original-----
De: Bruce Parham [mailto:obparham@jpl.nasa.gov]
Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 01:29 p.m.
Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link




Javier Fiasche wrote:
>
> Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
>
> I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2 atmega8l(via USARt) and
433Mhz
> transmitter and reciver module. One will work as transmiter and the other
as
> reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
>         -----------------------------
>        | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
>        -----------------------------
> all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the package, the mega8 will
> shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> The reciever would listen to the reciver module only when it is desired,
> selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to listen, i shut down
the
> 433 reciver module
> Here is the problem:
>         i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and the reciver usart,
because
> when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i keep getting and
> Framming error.
>      i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the RXEN=0, till i get a
> long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem to have no
> effect.........
> Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
>
> Thanks
> Javier

Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart is triggering on
noise.
I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if it has a RSS (Rx Sig
Strength)
line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart. (You may need to use
the
analog comparator on the RSS signal.)

Bruce

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RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by David D. Rea

It appears you send a sync character at the start of each frame. 

You could use this sync character to activate the receiving UART... Just
tie the receive data line to a timer capture/compare input. Have a
window of time that represents a valid bit, and when you receive a
sufficient number of valid bits (timer capture interrupts) then activate
the USART.

Best of luck,
Dave
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Tue, 2005-03-22 at 13:39 -0300, Javier Fiasche wrote:
> That's right the uart ist triggering on noise. 
> Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength output. I am
> using a very cheap 
> Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
> I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject noise, but
> digitally, ideas???
> I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart to transmitt,
> and trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver before
> setting the reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that
> fine............
> Thanks
> Javier
>  
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Bruce Parham [mailto:obparham@jpl.nasa.gov]
> Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 01:29 p.m.
> Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Javier Fiasche wrote:
> > 
> > Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
> > 
> > I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2 atmega8l(via USARt) and
> 433Mhz
> > transmitter and reciver module. One will work as transmiter and the
> other as
> > reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
> >         -----------------------------
> >        | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
> >        -----------------------------
> > all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the package, the mega8
> will
> > shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> > The reciever would listen to the reciver module only when it is
> desired,
> > selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to listen, i shut
> down the
> > 433 reciver module
> > Here is the problem:
> >         i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and the reciver
> usart, because
> > when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i keep getting
> and
> > Framming error.
> >      i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the RXEN=0, till i
> get a
> > long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem to have no
> > effect.........
> > Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Javier
> 
> Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart is triggering
> on noise.
> I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if it has a RSS
> (Rx Sig Strength)
> line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart. (You may need
> to use the 
> analog comparator on the RSS signal.)
> 
> Bruce
> 
> 
>                         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>                                           ADVERTISEMENT
>                                              click here
> 
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>       * To visit your group on the web, go to:
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>           
>       * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>         Service.
> 
> 
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> Tutopia es Internet para todos.

RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Dave VanHorn

At 11:39 AM 3/22/2005, Javier Fiasche wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
That's right the uart ist triggering on noise.
Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength output. I am using a very cheap
Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject noise, but digitally, ideas???
I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart to transmitt, and trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver before setting the reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that fine............
Thanks
Javier

You might have to disable the uart, and look for the preamble in software.

Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Jim Wagner

I'm a little confused. You said, earlier, I think, that you
are using manchester coding. That really does not fit with
"UART". Trying to use a UART with manchester seems like a
real problem. I'd do it all in software.

Jim

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:39:40 -0300
 "Javier Fiasche" <jfiasche@tutopia.com> wrote:
> That's right the uart ist triggering on noise.
> Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength
> output. I am using
> a very cheap
> Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
> I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject
> noise, but
> digitally, ideas???
> I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart
> to transmitt, and
> trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver
> before setting the
> reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that
> fine............
> Thanks
> Javier
> 
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Bruce Parham [mailto:obparham@jpl.nasa.gov]
> Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 01:29 p.m.
> Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Javier Fiasche wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
> >
> > I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2
> atmega8l(via USARt) and
> 433Mhz
> > transmitter and reciver module. One will work as
> transmiter and the other
> as
> > reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
> >         -----------------------------
> >        | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
> >        -----------------------------
> > all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the
> package, the mega8 will
> > shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> > The reciever would listen to the reciver module only
> when it is desired,
> > selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to
> listen, i shut down
> the
> > 433 reciver module
> > Here is the problem:
> >         i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and
> the reciver usart,
> because
> > when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i
> keep getting and
> > Framming error.
> >      i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the
> RXEN=0, till i get a
> > long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem
> to have no
> > effect.........
> > Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
> >
> > Thanks
> > Javier
> 
> Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart
> is triggering on
> noise.
> I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if
> it has a RSS (Rx Sig
> Strength)
> line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart.
> (You may need to use
> the
> analog comparator on the RSS signal.)
> 
> Bruce
> 
>       Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>             ADVERTISEMENT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
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> 
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> rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.

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---------------------------------------------------------------

Re: RF link

2005-03-22 by dan_avr

Javi!
Sorry I didn´t told you later, you know i´m using the manchester 
coding and decoding routines over the UART and they are working ok 
but at first there was no way to get a packet that passes the 
checksum, i´ve solved it by first sending a burst of 33hex (about 20 
bytes), wich is not a valid manchester code and its enough to make 
the reception stable.

Good Luck!
Daniel
    

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Javier Fiasche" <jfiasche@t...> 
wrote:
> Jim, what i am doing in codifing 1 byte as manchester (1-0 or 0-1) 
and then
> sending it over the uart ,so it is actually working as an uart, 
thas why it
> seems not to work. I've understood it now. I'll use software 
manchester
> Regards
> Javier

Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by David Kelly

On Tue, Mar 22, 2005 at 12:04:47PM -0300, Javier Fiasche wrote:
> 
> i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and the reciver usart,
> because when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i keep
> getting and Framming error.

Send more of your sync characters and on the RX side drop the extra.

Ignore framing errors unless they come between your packet header and
packet end.

Asynchronous serial is less than ideal in radio environments. If your
AVR has USARTs then use synchronous mode. Still, you must send enough
extra preamble for the transmitter to stablilze and the receiver to lock
on to the incoming data. With inexpensive voice grade gear this could be
100 mS or more.

Speaking of which, you say nothing of your data rate or modem. Can't
simply pipe serial data into an analog radio's microphone input.

-- 
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: RF link

2005-03-22 by dan_avr

Javi
Another problem i had is that even sending a burst the packet 
wouldn´t pass the checksumm, if you are turning off the transmitter, 
add a big delay after you send the last byte to make shure the RF 
module puts that last byte in the air, i´m shure that is happpening a 
few usec later

Daniel

 
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, "Javier Fiasche" <jfiasche@t...> 
> wrote:
> > Jim, what i am doing in codifing 1 byte as manchester (1-0 or 0-
1) 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> and then
> > sending it over the uart ,so it is actually working as an uart, 
> thas why it
> > seems not to work. I've understood it now. I'll use software 
> manchester
> > Regards
> > Javier

RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Javier Fiasche

Jim, what i am doing in codifing 1 byte as manchester (1-0 or 0-1) and then sending it over the uart ,so it is actually working as an uart, thas why it seems not to work. I've understood it now. I'll use software manchester
Regards
Javier
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jim Wagner [mailto:jim_d_wagner@applelinks.net]
Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 02:59 p.m.
Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

I'm a little confused. You said, earlier, I think, that you
are using manchester coding. That really does not fit with
"UART". Trying to use a UART with manchester seems like a
real problem. I'd do it all in software.

Jim

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:39:40 -0300
"Javier Fiasche" wrote:
> That's right the uart ist triggering on noise.
> Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength
> output. I am using
> a very cheap
> Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
>; I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject
> noise, but
> digitally, ideas???
> I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart
> to transmitt, and
> trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver
> before setting the
> reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that
> fine............
> Thanks
> Javier
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Bruce Parham [mailto:obparham@jpl.nasa.gov]
> Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 01:29 p.m.
> Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link
>
>
>
>
> Javier Fiasche wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
> >
> > I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2
> atmega8l(via USARt) and
> 433Mhz
> > transmitter and reciver module. One will work as
> transmiter and the other
> as
>; > reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
> > -----------------------------
> > | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
> > -----------------------------
> > all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the
> package, the mega8 will
> > shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> > The reciever would listen to the reciver module only
> when it is desired,
> > selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to
> listen, i shut down
> the
> > 433 reciver module
> > Here is the problem:
> > i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and
> the reciver usart,
> because
> > when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i
> keep getting and
> > Framming error.
> > i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the
> RXEN=0, till i get a
> > long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem
> to have no
> > effect.........
> > Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
> >
> > Thanks
> > Javier
>
> Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart
> is triggering on
> noise.
> I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if
> it has a RSS (Rx Sig
> Strength)
> line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart.
> (You may need to use
> the
> analog comparator on the RSS signal.)
>
> Bruce
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AVR-Chat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> ______________________________
> Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más
> rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------

Visita www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.

RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-22 by Chad O'Neill

If you want to catch the transition from 1-0 or 0-1 accurately on the receiver, you will have to over sample the incomming data. ie sample 4, 8 or even 16 time the transmit rate. Doing that you will be able to work out where the clock edge of the trasnmitter is and adjust the receiver accordingly.
Chad

From: Javier Fiasche [mailto:jfiasche@tutopia.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 23 March 2005 5:49 AM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] RF link

Jim, what i am doing in codifing 1 byte as manchester (1-0 or 0-1) and then sending it over the uart ,so it is actually working as an uart, thas why it seems not to work. I've understood it now. I'll use software manchester
Regards
Javier
-----Mensaje original-----
De: Jim Wagner [mailto:jim_d_wagner@applelinks.net]
Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 02:59 p.m.
Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

I'm a little confused. You said, earlier, I think, that you
are using manchester coding. That really does not fit with
"UART". Trying to use a UART with manchester seems like a
real problem. I'd do it all in software.

Jim

On Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:39:40 -0300
"Javier Fiasche" wrote:
> That's right the uart ist triggering on noise.
> Unfortunatelly my reciever does not have signal strength
> output. I am using
> a very cheap
> Yong Horng reciver and transmitter (not a transciver).
>; I would need to detect a real transmition and to reject
> noise, but
> digitally, ideas???
> I tried transmitting a Hi level before setting the uart
> to transmitt, and
> trying to detect this continuos hi level on the reciver
> before setting the
> reciever uart to recive, But it doesn't work that
> fine............
> Thanks
> Javier
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: Bruce Parham [mailto:obparham@jpl.nasa.gov]
> Enviado el: Martes, 22 de Marzo de 2005 01:29 p.m.
> Para: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Asunto: Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link
>
>
>
>
> Javier Fiasche wrote:
> >
> > Hi everybody, i'm having trouble.....
> >
> > I am trying to transmit data over Rf using 2
> atmega8l(via USARt) and
> 433Mhz
> > transmitter and reciver module. One will work as
> transmiter and the other
> as
>; > reciever. The transmiter will send a code composed of:
> > -----------------------------
> > | SYNC |Package|CHECKSUM|end|
> > -----------------------------
> > all of this coded as manchester. Afer sending the
> package, the mega8 will
> > shut down the transmitter until next transmition.
> > The reciever would listen to the reciver module only
> when it is desired,
> > selecting this with a pushbutton.When i dont want to
> listen, i shut down
> the
> > 433 reciver module
> > Here is the problem:
> > i dont seem to sincronice the transmitter and
> the reciver usart,
> because
> > when the transmitter is off and the reciever is on i
> keep getting and
> > Framming error.
> > i've tried listening to the RXd pin, with the
> RXEN=0, till i get a
> > long enought "1" and then set the RXEN=1, but this seem
> to have no
> > effect.........
> > Any ideas of how to sincronice them????????????
> >
> > Thanks
> > Javier
>
> Sounds like the rx doesn't have any squelch and the uart
> is triggering on
> noise.
> I don't know what kind of receiver you're using but, if
> it has a RSS (Rx Sig
> Strength)
> line, you could use that to enable/disable the rx uart.
> (You may need to use
> the
> analog comparator on the RSS signal.)
>
> Bruce
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
>
>
>
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVR-Chat/
>
> b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> AVR-Chat-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
> ______________________________
> Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más
> rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.

---------------------------------------------------------------
The Think Different Store
http://www.thinkdifferentstore.com/
For All Your Mac Gear
---------------------------------------------------------------


Visita www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.

Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-23 by David Kelly

On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Chad O'Neill wrote:

> If you want to catch the transition from 1-0 or 0-1 accurately on the 
> receiver, you will have to over sample the incomming data.  ie sample 
> 4, 8 or even 16 time the transmit rate.  Doing that you will be able 
> to work out where the clock edge of the trasnmitter is and adjust the 
> receiver accordingly.

I think he was expanding one byte into two and shipping that out the 
UART.

RF does a lot of nasty things to serial data streams. Thats what makes 
modems magic.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.

Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-23 by Chad O'Neill

you should be able to use the uart to transmit the data, however there is no way you can use it to receive the data.

Chad

David Kelly wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Chad O'Neill wrote:

  
If you want to catch the transition from 1-0 or 0-1 accurately on the 
receiver, you will have to over sample the incomming data.  ie sample 
4, 8 or even 16 time the transmit rate.  Doing that you will be able 
to work out where the clock edge of the trasnmitter is and adjust the 
receiver accordingly.
    
I think he was expanding one byte into two and shipping that out the 
UART.

RF does a lot of nasty things to serial data streams. Thats what makes 
modems magic.

--
David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
========================================================================
Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.



 
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Re: [AVR-Chat] RF link

2005-03-23 by Mark Jordan

Here you can get some ideas:

	http://www.piclist.com/techref/microchip/ammermansync.htm

	Mark Jordan
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On 23 Mar 2005 at 11:59, Chad O'Neill wrote:

> 
> you should be able to use the uart to transmit the data, 
> however there is no way you can use it to receive the 
> data. 
> 
> Chad
> 
> David Kelly wrote: 
>         
>         On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:34 PM, Chad O'Neill wrote:
>         
>           
>         If you want to catch the transition from 1-0 or 0-1 accurately on the 
>         receiver, you will have to over sample the incomming data. ie sample 
>         4, 8 or even 16 time the transmit rate.Doing that you will be able 
>         to work out where the clock edge of the trasnmitter is and adjust the 
>         receiver accordingly.
>             
>         
>         I think he was expanding one byte into two and shipping that out the 
>         UART.
>         
>         RF does a lot of nasty things to serial data streams. Thats what makes 
>         modems magic.
>         
>         --
>         David Kelly N4HHE, dkelly@HiWAAY.net
>         ========================================================================
>         Whom computers would destroy, they must first drive mad.
>         
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