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Electronics

Electronics

2004-07-02 by David Brännvall

Hi, I have been into programming for several years, but now I want to
start with hardware. My first project will basically be a little general
purpose box with lots of buttons and leds and a display, and a comport.

I have bought the stk500, and I have no problem with the assembly
programming, and I manage to connect a few leds 74XXX ic's etc to the
stk500, and get some comport communications with my pc etc.

But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
like:
* More basic understanding about the electronics.
* How to control things that require more current then the stk can
provide.
* How to build things without using the stk500.
* Howto read datasheets.
* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
* Etc

Ie The programming isn't any problem, but I don't know enough to design
my own hardware around the AVR.

I just need to get some basic knowledge, so I can experiment. Right now
I get stuck all the time, and I don't know what to do, or where to look
for the solution.

The avrfreaks website is great, but most of the information is about
programming or the electonics is to advanced for me.

It can't be impossible for a newbee like me to design the "simple" box I
mentioned.

It should be just some shiftregisters to set the leds, some
shiftregisters to read the buttonstates, some io to the display and the
comport.

But I don't know where to put the resistors, how to get enough current
to drive the led backlight and stuff like that.

Any ideas where I can find info to learn more about electronics, ie
webpages, books, tutorials, newsgroups, irc, anything that might help
me.

Regards,
David

Re: Electronics

2004-07-02 by Graham Davies

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, David Brännvall 
<davidbrannvall@h...> wrote:

> ... how to get enough current
> to drive the led backlight ...
> ... ideas where I can find info ...

This is only going to be of marginal help, so I'll keep it short. If 
you take a look at the Prototyping System for the Z8 Encore! MCU that 
I make and sell:
http://www.ecrostech.com/Products/ProtoSys01/Intro.htm
you will find details on the different ways to put it together that 
may help you absorb some hardware design stuff. Much of this in 
independent of the MCU.  In particular, there is a detailed 
discussion of backlights for the LCD display module.

Graham.

Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by Mike Bronosky

In addition to what Dave said...

The Forrest Mims Circuit Scrapbook - I'm not familiar with this book but the
books/booklets he has written and carried by Radio Shack had some fairly
basic electronic info both theory and how to with example circuits. Its
about $14.67 on Amazon. Amazon does have a listing of the Table of Contents.
The first pages on analog circuit theory looks good. Of course the base of
any electronics is Ohm's Law, how voltage, current and resistance interact.
Using just that you can do a lot. Hell, a good pizza and beer cost that.

Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics - It being some 700 page goes
into electronics a lot more then Mims does.

The Art of Electronics - In addition to many many great circuits it also has
an into that covers electronic theroy

If it were me I would go with "The Forrest Mims Circuit Scrapbook" as a
first choice. At about 140 pages this one won't break your arm.
The "Art of Electronics" would be second. (I would initially get both of
these books.) At 1100 pages, a little more than light reading.
Then if you really wanted to get into electronics theory more than these two
books provide get "Teach Yourself Electricity and Electronics".
Mike
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David VanHorn" <dvanhorn@cedar.net>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>; <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 10:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics


>
> >
> >But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
> >like:
> >* More basic understanding about the electronics.
> >* How to control things that require more current then the stk can
> >provide.
> >* How to build things without using the stk500.
> >* Howto read datasheets.
> >* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
> >* Etc
>
> Get thee to Amazon.com for Horowitz and Hill's "Art of Electronics".
>
> It will cost about what an STK-500 does.
> You'll have it long after the STK-500 is obsolete.
>
> Highly recommended: Asimov's Guide to Physics.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]
>
>

---
[This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus]

RE: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by Al Welchaxxiom

Look at data sheets for driver parts, etc at semi manufactures web site such
as www.ti.com www.national.com etc. A part I use a lot from ti is the
tpic2603 part... 6 channels, spi communications, heavy current drive, fully
protected, etc. Drives LEDs, Solenoids, etc.

Al Welch 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: David Brännvall [mailto:davidbrannvall@home.se] 
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 2:43 AM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

Hi, I have been into programming for several years, but now I want to start
with hardware. My first project will basically be a little general purpose
box with lots of buttons and leds and a display, and a comport.

I have bought the stk500, and I have no problem with the assembly
programming, and I manage to connect a few leds 74XXX ic's etc to the
stk500, and get some comport communications with my pc etc.

But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
like:
* More basic understanding about the electronics.
* How to control things that require more current then the stk can provide.
* How to build things without using the stk500.
* Howto read datasheets.
* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
* Etc

Ie The programming isn't any problem, but I don't know enough to design my
own hardware around the AVR.

I just need to get some basic knowledge, so I can experiment. Right now I
get stuck all the time, and I don't know what to do, or where to look for
the solution.

The avrfreaks website is great, but most of the information is about
programming or the electonics is to advanced for me.

It can't be impossible for a newbee like me to design the "simple" box I
mentioned.

It should be just some shiftregisters to set the leds, some shiftregisters
to read the buttonstates, some io to the display and the comport.

But I don't know where to put the resistors, how to get enough current to
drive the led backlight and stuff like that.

Any ideas where I can find info to learn more about electronics, ie
webpages, books, tutorials, newsgroups, irc, anything that might help me.

Regards,
David



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Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by David VanHorn

>
>But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
>like:
>* More basic understanding about the electronics.
>* How to control things that require more current then the stk can
>provide.
>* How to build things without using the stk500.
>* Howto read datasheets.
>* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
>* Etc

Get thee to Amazon.com for Horowitz and Hill's "Art of Electronics".

It will cost about what an STK-500 does.
You'll have it long after the STK-500 is obsolete.

Highly recommended: Asimov's Guide to Physics.

RE: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by David Brännvall

Thanks that seems like a good book, I just ordered it.

Regards,
David
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: David VanHorn [mailto:dvanhorn@cedar.net] 
Sent: den 2 juli 2004 16:10
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com; AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics



>
>But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
>like:
>* More basic understanding about the electronics.
>* How to control things that require more current then the stk can 
>provide.
>* How to build things without using the stk500.
>* Howto read datasheets.
>* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
>* Etc

Get thee to Amazon.com for Horowitz and Hill's "Art of Electronics".

It will cost about what an STK-500 does.
You'll have it long after the STK-500 is obsolete.

Highly recommended: Asimov's Guide to Physics.




 
Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by Paul Maddox

David,

its more than a good book, its the 'bible' of the electronics world.

Paul


----- Original Message -----
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "David Brännvall" <davidbrannvall@home.se>
To: <AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 3:46 PM
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Electronics


> Thanks that seems like a good book, I just ordered it.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David VanHorn [mailto:dvanhorn@cedar.net]
> Sent: den 2 juli 2004 16:10
> To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com; AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics
>
>
>
> >
> >But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
> >like:
> >* More basic understanding about the electronics.
> >* How to control things that require more current then the stk can
> >provide.
> >* How to build things without using the stk500.
> >* Howto read datasheets.
> >* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
> >* Etc
>
> Get thee to Amazon.com for Horowitz and Hill's "Art of Electronics".
>
> It will cost about what an STK-500 does.
> You'll have it long after the STK-500 is obsolete.
>
> Highly recommended: Asimov's Guide to Physics.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by rob@usbmicro.com

David,

> But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn
> things like:

> * More basic understanding about the electronics.

> * How to control things that require more current then the stk can
> provide.

> * How to build things without using the stk500.

> * Howto read datasheets.

> * Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
> * Etc

> Ie The programming isn't any problem, but I don't know enough to design
> my own hardware around the AVR.

> I just need to get some basic knowledge, so I can experiment. Right now
> I get stuck all the time, and I don't know what to do, or where to look
> for the solution.

Find a book called "The Microcontroller Idea Book" by Jan Axelson.
Jan's site is www.lvr.com. The book has explanations and examples for
connecting things to microcontrollers.

The book covers interfacing input devices (switches, buttons, higher
voltage signals), analog interfacing, output devices (LEDs, motors,
relays, LCDs), and a bit of general electronics knowledge. Probably
most of what you need to get you to your next "level".

Also very useful is her book: "Making Printed Circuit Boards".

-Rob
USBmicro

RE: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by Al Welch

Also CMOS Cookbook and TTL Cookbook by Don Lancaster. These will give
complete details on interfacing to LEDs, use of resistors to limit current,
pull ups, etc. Amazon.com has the CMOS book listed about $20.

Al Welch
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: David Brännvall [mailto:davidbrannvall@home.se]
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 7:47 AM
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [AVR-Chat] Electronics


Thanks that seems like a good book, I just ordered it.

Regards,
David

-----Original Message-----
From: David VanHorn [mailto:dvanhorn@cedar.net]
Sent: den 2 juli 2004 16:10
To: AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com; AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics



>
>But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn things
>like:
>* More basic understanding about the electronics.
>* How to control things that require more current then the stk can
>provide.
>* How to build things without using the stk500.
>* Howto read datasheets.
>* Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
>* Etc

Get thee to Amazon.com for Horowitz and Hill's "Art of Electronics".

It will cost about what an STK-500 does.
You'll have it long after the STK-500 is obsolete.

Highly recommended: Asimov's Guide to Physics.





Yahoo! Groups Links











Yahoo! Groups Links

Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by wagner

Hi David, I was an electronic teacher in the past, with many students and
their problems to understand what seems to be a monster, and it is only a
bunch of different information and concepts.

Let me try to help you in this your new endevour.

If you want to get the basics of electronic (what I would recommend), you
should forget a little bit about microcontrollers, processors, memories,
etc.  The similarity is if you want to understand how to build a car from
scratch, first you need to understand how to cast iron, vulcanize rubber and
mold plastic, each different temperatures for each material, problems and
solutions for each one.  To purchase parts from the store and put the car
together is easy, anyone with a minimum mechanic skill can do it, mostly
because you can buy a working engine, attach to a working transmission and
connect cables and hoses, you can have a complete car working in few days,
but the question is;  What did you really learn? just put a car together,
nothing else, you didn't learn how "to build" a car at all.

Of course that you don't learn how to build a microchip, but you need to
understand how to build a 1/1000000 part of it with few transistors, leds,
capacitors, regulators, understand power supply, power control, how to
calculate transistor polarization, current, amplification, invertion, etc.

In a easy way, and "easy" is never the same for "simple" (they never walk
together), I would ALWAYS start to teach about a simple POWER SUPPLY, using
a power cord, switch, fuse, power transformer, rectifiers, capacitors,
voltage regulator and output posts.  That is the most simply electronic
buildup you can do, most students create a solid desire to keep going when
their FIRST power supply works nicely.  They feel confidence and understand
the first concepts of electricity and electronic, alternate current, direct
current, voltage conversion, interruption, safety, conversion from AC to DC,
filtering and regulation.  Everything in only 7 different electro/electronic
parts.  All those 7 (8) parts can be purchased at any Radio Shack and would
cost  no more than $15.

I would take a whole day or two to understand exactly, in details, with
fully understand, about how each one of those 7 parts work and what happens
if they are assembled wrong, or reversed.  By this way, the most basic
principle of any electronic project will be solid in your mind, not only how
it works, how it should be built, but further, what happens if something was
built wrong, or if something fails or short circuits in that power supply.

After that I would recommend start playing with resistors, leds, calculating
resistor values as current limitters based on the Ohms law, led
specification, etc.  At this point you understand the second most important
part of the electronics, how to avoid a disaster and how to control current
and generate voltage drop.

Once you have the above solid and very understandable (if you cheat, will be
cheatting to your future), then you may try to understand how to polarize a
transistor, few resistors, perhaps a solar sensor or a LDR to make a LED
lite when  it gets dark.   When you dominate this easy task, would be
feeling very satisfied to do something that less than 1 in 1000 people in
the planet can do.

Then you will learn that the LED can be replaced by a relay and you for sure
will be able to automatically turns on a 100 Watts lamp at your backyard
just because it is after 8pm.  I guess just 1 in 5000 people can do that
without copying a circuit from somewhere else.

At this point you can turn to digital electronics, forget about power
supply, transistor, LDR, etc, and buy a dozen different microchips from the
74HCXX series, you can invest $30 there and have a box full of surprises and
adventures.  At this point the previous knowledge from LEDS, resistors, etc,
will help you to build the visual output of your digital crazyness.  Few
switches and buttons will create the evil control of the beast.

Understanding the basic concepts of logic gates will give you a nice
opportunity to open a door visited only 1 in 10,000 people.  At this point
you will be able to play with latches, counters, then you will desperat
after some 7 segments displays and some decoder bcd-7seg to show numericaly
your brain teaser designs.

Then, only then, you will think that the switches and buttons could be
replaced by your microcontroller port output and input pins, so your
electronic digital design now is controlled and possibly read by the
microcontroller, and the transistor and relay now will switch on the 100W at
the backyard not only because it went dark, but also, because it is exactly
10:25pm, time to get the dog out, and the light will be off at 10:40, after
you came back, not only that, at 10:42 the backyard alarm will be activated
and so on.

What I mean is that a good Formula 1 driver absolutely needs to know what
happens at the engine when he presses the gas pedal, not only that some
cable is pulled and fuel injection happens and the hell is unleashed inside
the pistons, he needs to know why and how it happens and recognize when it
is ok or something is not good.  He needs to count with his knowledge, more
the better, to win a race.  Nobody wins a race just because he was there, he
did it because in some way he was prepared to do it.

My first anything electronic, a power supply, in 1969 started with a flat
aluminum plate 4mm tick.  Saw, hammer and drill.  I had no idea what would
happens after that. It just changed my life.

Cheers and welcome.

Wagner Lipnharski - email:  wagner@ustr.net
UST Research Inc. - Development Director
http://www.ustr.net - Orlando Florida 32837
Licensed Consultant Atmel AVR _/_/_/_/_/_/
July 2, 2004 2:54 pm






David Brännvall wrote:
> Hi, I have been into programming for several years, but now I want to
> start with hardware. My first project will basically be a little
> general purpose box with lots of buttons and leds and a display, and
> a comport.
>
> I have bought the stk500, and I have no problem with the assembly
> programming, and I manage to connect a few leds 74XXX ic's etc to the
> stk500, and get some comport communications with my pc etc.
>
> But I feel my electronics skills are way to low, I need to learn
> things like:
> * More basic understanding about the electronics.
> * How to control things that require more current then the stk can
> provide.
> * How to build things without using the stk500.
> * Howto read datasheets.
> * Howto find errors in my hardware designs.
> * Etc
>
> Ie The programming isn't any problem, but I don't know enough to
> design my own hardware around the AVR.
>
> I just need to get some basic knowledge, so I can experiment. Right
> now I get stuck all the time, and I don't know what to do, or where
> to look for the solution.
>
> The avrfreaks website is great, but most of the information is about
> programming or the electonics is to advanced for me.
>
> It can't be impossible for a newbee like me to design the "simple"
> box I mentioned.
>
> It should be just some shiftregisters to set the leds, some
> shiftregisters to read the buttonstates, some io to the display and
> the comport.
>
> But I don't know where to put the resistors, how to get enough current
> to drive the led backlight and stuff like that.
>
> Any ideas where I can find info to learn more about electronics, ie
> webpages, books, tutorials, newsgroups, irc, anything that might help
> me.
>
> Regards,
> David
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo!
> Companion Toolbar.
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/dN_tlB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


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Re: [AVR-Chat] Electronics

2004-07-02 by David VanHorn

At 08:38 AM 7/2/2004 -0400, Mike Bronosky wrote:

>In addition to what Dave said...
>
>The Forrest Mims Circuit Scrapbook -

I like mims, but way too many errors for my taste.


>The Art of Electronics - In addition to many many great circuits it also has
>an into that covers electronic theroy

The "bad circuits" are much more educational :)

Re: Electronics

2004-07-02 by upand_at_them

I think Jan Axelson might be a guy.  Sure sounds like a Scandinavian 
name.

Mike


--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, rob@u... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Find a book called "The Microcontroller Idea Book" by Jan Axelson.
> 
> Also very useful is her book: "Making Printed Circuit Boards".
> 
> -Rob
> USBmicro

Re: [AVR-Chat] Re: Electronics

2004-07-03 by rob@usbmicro.com

> I think Jan Axelson might be a guy.  Sure sounds like a Scandinavian
> name.

No Mike, Jan isn't a guy. But to be sure you could ask _Jim_ Axelson.
He should know for sure...   :-)

Let me mention again "The Microcontroller Idea Book" - I'll steal from
the review on the last page:

"... an ideal introduction to low-end embedded design" and "The real
gold in the book is the collection of input/output circuits that show
you how to connect to the outside world and have it all work properly.
The writing is a model of clarity and conciseness. Once you know how
these things work, you can use them cookbook-style."

This book is certainly worth putting on your shelf. I have "The Art of
Electronics" too, but I recommend (to the OP, David) starting with
Jan's book first.

I have "Making Printed Circuit Boards", "USB Complete", "Serial Port
Complete", "Parallel Port Complete" and "Embedded Ethernet and
Internet Complete". All by Jan.

I'm not unbiased - I reviewed "USB Complete". But I'd have all of her
books anyway...

Also I would recommend Jack Ganssle's "The Art of Designing Embedded
Systems" and "The Art of Programming Embedded Systems". It is about
time I reread these two.


My book will be titled "The Art of Complete".  :-)

-Rob
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> --- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, rob@u... wrote:
>> Find a book called "The Microcontroller Idea Book" by Jan Axelson.
>> 
>> Also very useful is her book: "Making Printed Circuit Boards".
>> 
>> -Rob
>> USBmicro

Re: Electronics

2004-07-03 by upand_at_them

Oops, sorry Jan.

Mike

--- In AVR-Chat@yahoogroups.com, rob@u... wrote:
> No Mike, Jan isn't a guy. But to be sure you could ask _Jim_ 
Axelson.
> He should know for sure...   :-)

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