Atari-Midi Archives

Hi there

I'm new here, so here's my first question :)

I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...

of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it (thank
you!)...

I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
program...

is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software that
lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?

also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
used and their (approssimative) value?

I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
welcome...


greetings

Fabio

--- In atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com, "somethingkillingyou" 
<somethingkillingyou@...> wrote:
>Hi Fabio,
     I owned a K3, K1 and K5 .  The K3 is good for learning the 
parameters of what a synthesizer does.  There is a button for every 
function.  Beyond that softsynths take its place.  I gave mine away 
to someone with small kids, because it great for learning about 
syntesizer sound making.  It is not multi-timberal.  Has small number 
of routings.  Very fixed routings and Crow Music has created an 
instrument sounding exactly like what its gifts were called the Blue 
crow.;that is virtual.  So I can use several different sounding K3.  
If you know how to think like a programmer, Why keep it?  It's 
outdated.  The additive synthesis is explained by using Reaktor.  
Samplers have developed so far.  The help and tutorials to learn 
things are cheap.  I am subscribing to VTC.com for $250 a year and I 
have access to about 35 different online Audio classes, in addition 
photoshop, illustrator that it is cheap to become an expert in 
anything now.  So unless you are a newbie or have kids the K3 is not 
that hot.

Leighton

> 
> 
> Hi there
> 
> I'm new here, so here's my first question :)
> 
> I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
> that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
> value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
> other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...
> 
> of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it 
(thank
> you!)...
> 
> I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
> problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
> program...
> 
> is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software 
that

> lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
> showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?
> 
> also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
> oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
> complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
> used and their (approssimative) value?
> 
> I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
> welcome...
> 
> 
> greetings
> 
> Fabio
>

that doesn't answer my question at all...

also, I think a real analog filter beats soft-o-crap any time.

--- In atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com, "Leighton"
<methodman3000@...> wrote:

>
> --- In atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com, "somethingkillingyou" 
> <somethingkillingyou@> wrote:
> >Hi Fabio,
>      I owned a K3, K1 and K5 .  The K3 is good for learning the 
> parameters of what a synthesizer does.  There is a button for every 
> function.  Beyond that softsynths take its place.  I gave mine away 
> to someone with small kids, because it great for learning about 
> syntesizer sound making.  It is not multi-timberal.  Has small number 
> of routings.  Very fixed routings and Crow Music has created an 
> instrument sounding exactly like what its gifts were called the Blue 
> crow.;that is virtual.  So I can use several different sounding K3.  
> If you know how to think like a programmer, Why keep it?  It's 
> outdated.  The additive synthesis is explained by using Reaktor.  
> Samplers have developed so far.  The help and tutorials to learn 
> things are cheap.  I am subscribing to VTC.com for $250 a year and I 
> have access to about 35 different online Audio classes, in addition 
> photoshop, illustrator that it is cheap to become an expert in 
> anything now.  So unless you are a newbie or have kids the K3 is not 
> that hot.
> 
> Leighton
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi there
> > 
> > I'm new here, so here's my first question :)
> > 
> > I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
> > that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
> > value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
> > other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...
> > 
> > of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it 
> (thank
> > you!)...
> > 
> > I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
> > problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
> > program...
> > 
> > is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software 
> that
> > lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
> > showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?
> > 
> > also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
> > oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
> > complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
> > used and their (approssimative) value?
> > 
> > I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
> > welcome...
> > 
> > 
> > greetings
> > 
> > Fabio
> >
>

Sorry If you want to download caged artist K3 and it has the harmonic series.  The K3 will let you pick 32 of the harmonics out of 128.  Look at the editor librarians on steem.  Most of the K3 sounds are electric piano forms.  But I feel the same effect from vst run through a nice speaker system with the eq's adjusted.  I use Orion or Sonar.  But every program is good and cheap.  Especially if you are a student.  They offer student discounts.  The K3 has a master button and you have to kick that on to adjust the master functions.  Run it up into Dr T's Caged Artist K3 or the GenEdit and it should work for you.  

I also own Reason and am creating a general midi bank on Subtractor basing many of my ideas off the K3.  But their own examples are more weak than the Crow Blue examples which sound so much like a K3 including the chorus parameters along with the LF0 and it's strange shapes.  

I learned to program on that instrument.  But the sounds can be recreated on subtractor probably pretty easily.  With good eq I can have the whole kb shine all the way up the 5 octaves.

On Steem I really had stability issues trying to use the mpe environment.  By the time I figured out how they worked.  I knew how the modern programs worked.  So I switched.  They were complicated.  But  You can make anything.

Have you tried KCS Lvl II  That is like a Musical Mathematica.  But you might check out Kcs 4.0 but load in level 2 with PVG and Master Editor.  Very deep 

Lots of Luck

Leighton


----- Original Message ----
From: somethingkillingyou <somethingkillingyou@...>
To: atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:53:31 AM
Subject: [atari-midi-archives] Re: K3's additive user wave and harmonic partials

that doesn't answer my question at all...

also, I think a real analog filter beats soft-o-crap any time.

--- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "Leighton"
<methodman3000@ ...> wrote:

>
> --- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "somethingkillingyo u" 
> <somethingkillingyo u@> wrote:
> >Hi Fabio,
> I owned a K3, K1 and K5 . The K3 is good for learning the 
> parameters of what a synthesizer does. There is a button for every 
> function. Beyond that softsynths take its place. I gave mine away 
> to someone with small kids, because it great for learning about 
> syntesizer sound making. It is not multi-timberal. Has small number 
> of routings. Very fixed routings and Crow Music has created an 
> instrument sounding exactly like what its gifts were called the Blue 
> crow.;that is virtual. So I can use several different sounding K3. 
> If you know how to think like a programmer, Why keep it? It's 
> outdated. The additive synthesis is explained by using Reaktor. 
> Samplers have developed so far. The help and tutorials to learn 
> things are cheap. I am subscribing to VTC.com for $250 a year and I 
> have access to about 35 different online Audio classes, in addition 
> photoshop, illustrator that it is cheap to become an expert in 
> anything now. So unless you are a newbie or have kids the K3 is not 
> that hot.
> 
> Leighton
> 
> > 
> > 
> > Hi there
> > 
> > I'm new here, so here's my first question :)
> > 
> > I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
> > that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
> > value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
> > other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...
> > 
> > of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it 
> (thank
> > you!)...
> > 
> > I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
> > problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
> > program...
> > 
> > is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software 
> that
> > lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
> > showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?
> > 
> > also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
> > oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
> > complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
> > used and their (approssimative) value?
> > 
> > I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
> > welcome...
> > 
> > 
> > greetings
> > 
> > Fabio
> >
>

hi

actually, I'm trying to use K3edit for the user wave made out of
partials, but the fact that you don't know the shape of the waveform
is a let down...
graphical rendering of the waveform shape would be vital imho...

about Dr.T's KCS: I never used it; what would be the benefits?
has it got an additive synthesis engine? 

greetings

Fabio

--- In atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com, Leighton Cooper
<methodman3000@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry If you want to download caged artist K3 and it has the
harmonic series.  The K3 will let you pick 32 of the harmonics out of
128.  Look at the editor librarians on steem.  Most of the K3 sounds
are electric piano forms.  But I feel the same effect from vst run
through a nice speaker system with the eq's adjusted.  I use Orion or
Sonar.  But every program is good and cheap.  Especially if you are a
student.  They offer student discounts.  The K3 has a master button
and you have to kick that on to adjust the master functions.  Run it
up into Dr T's Caged Artist K3 or the GenEdit and it should work for
you.  
> 
> I also own Reason and am creating a general midi bank on Subtractor
basing many of my ideas off the K3.  But their own examples are more
weak than the Crow Blue examples which sound so much like a K3
including the chorus parameters along with the LF0 and it's strange
shapes.  
> 
> I learned to program on that instrument.  But the sounds can be
recreated on subtractor probably pretty easily.  With good eq I can
have the whole kb shine all the way up the 5 octaves.
> 
> On Steem I really had stability issues trying to use the mpe
environment.  By the time I figured out how they worked.  I knew how
the modern programs worked.  So I switched.  They were complicated. 
But  You can make anything.
> 
> Have you tried KCS Lvl II  That is like a Musical Mathematica.  But
you might check out Kcs 4.0 but load in level 2 with PVG and Master
Editor.  Very deep 
> 
> Lots of Luck
> 
> Leighton
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: somethingkillingyou <somethingkillingyou@...>
> To: atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:53:31 AM
> Subject: [atari-midi-archives] Re: K3's additive user wave and
harmonic partials

> 
> that doesn't answer my question at all...
> 
> also, I think a real analog filter beats soft-o-crap any time.
> 
> --- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "Leighton"
> <methodman3000@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "somethingkillingyo u" 
> > <somethingkillingyo u@> wrote:
> > >Hi Fabio,
> > I owned a K3, K1 and K5 . The K3 is good for learning the 
> > parameters of what a synthesizer does. There is a button for every 
> > function. Beyond that softsynths take its place. I gave mine away 
> > to someone with small kids, because it great for learning about 
> > syntesizer sound making. It is not multi-timberal. Has small number 
> > of routings. Very fixed routings and Crow Music has created an 
> > instrument sounding exactly like what its gifts were called the Blue 
> > crow.;that is virtual. So I can use several different sounding K3. 
> > If you know how to think like a programmer, Why keep it? It's 
> > outdated. The additive synthesis is explained by using Reaktor. 
> > Samplers have developed so far. The help and tutorials to learn 
> > things are cheap. I am subscribing to VTC.com for $250 a year and I 
> > have access to about 35 different online Audio classes, in addition 
> > photoshop, illustrator that it is cheap to become an expert in 
> > anything now. So unless you are a newbie or have kids the K3 is not 
> > that hot.
> > 
> > Leighton
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi there
> > > 
> > > I'm new here, so here's my first question :)
> > > 
> > > I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
> > > that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
> > > value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
> > > other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...
> > > 
> > > of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it 
> > (thank
> > > you!)...
> > > 
> > > I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
> > > problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
> > > program...
> > > 
> > > is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software 
> > that
> > > lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
> > > showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?
> > > 
> > > also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
> > > oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
> > > complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
> > > used and their (approssimative) value?
> > > 
> > > I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
> > > welcome...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > greetings
> > > 
> > > Fabio
> > >
> >
>

If I remember right the increment decrement keys are the intensity adjustment for the individual harmonics.  You scroll through harmonics and increase their values using inc dec keys.  I think the caged artist will show you the shape of your wave.  But you can only use 32 harmonics out of 128 for the K3..  The K5 splits it into 2 64 harmonic banks.  Have you loaded the caged Artist K3 its on steem and works in both medium and high resolution.  I am posative what you want is in that editor librarian.  The K3 presets in my opinion don't really shine on what the instrument is capable of expecialy if you run it through an effects unit.
  ---Remember to put Master on for those parameters to work that way.  It is different than edit mode.  Do you have the K3 manual?

KCS is close to ableton live?  It is 3 kinds of sequencers.  Pattern, Linear or SongBlock.  but it also has an Artificial Intlligence generator and Craig Anderton wrote the help manual.  Where the new programs have gone is with this thing called ACT where on Midi controlling keyboards.  My synthesizers automatically map the midi message channels. 7 is volume, 10 is pan 1 is mod 64 sustain and so forth so you are able to adjust these using a potentiometer instead of a mouse.  But KCS had what they call an MPE environment.  Things kind of got added on to it.  Tiger is like the interface of a piano roll.  Copyist in Music by music notation and you would individually load each of these sections and they would use KCS as the core sequencer.  I put songs by typing them in fast in KCS but most musicians would not find database music writing fun.  They would rather step using a mouse.  On Dr T's you could assign keys on the typewriter to different fhythm values
 and move and insert that way.  I did not understand all this when I studied it.  I was a newbie.  But a lot of people think it's like a pre-band in the box, or groove creator.
----- Original Message ----
From: somethingkillingyou <somethingkillingyou@...>
To: atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 9:04:47 AM
Subject: [atari-midi-archives] Re: K3's additive user wave and harmonic partials

hi

actually, I'm trying to use K3edit for the user wave made out of
partials, but the fact that you don't know the shape of the waveform
is a let down...
graphical rendering of the waveform shape would be vital imho...

about Dr.T's KCS: I never used it; what would be the benefits?
has it got an additive synthesis engine? 

greetings

Fabio

--- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, Leighton Cooper
<methodman3000@ ...> wrote:
>
> Sorry If you want to download caged artist K3 and it has the
harmonic series. The K3 will let you pick 32 of the harmonics out of
128. Look at the editor librarians on steem. Most of the K3 sounds
are electric piano forms. But I feel the same effect from vst run
through a nice speaker system with the eq's adjusted. I use Orion or
Sonar. But every program is good and cheap. Especially if you are a
student. They offer student discounts. The K3 has a master button
and you have to kick that on to adjust the master functions. Run it
up into Dr T's Caged Artist K3 or the GenEdit and it should work for
you. 
> 
> I also own Reason and am creating a general midi bank on Subtractor
basing many of my ideas off the K3. But their own examples are more
weak than the Crow Blue examples which sound so much like a K3
including the chorus parameters along with the LF0 and it's strange
shapes. 
> 
> I learned to program on that instrument. But the sounds can be
recreated on subtractor probably pretty easily. With good eq I can
have the whole kb shine all the way up the 5 octaves.
> 
> On Steem I really had stability issues trying to use the mpe
environment. By the time I figured out how they worked. I knew how
the modern programs worked. So I switched. They were complicated. 
But You can make anything.
> 
> Have you tried KCS Lvl II That is like a Musical Mathematica. But
you might check out Kcs 4.0 but load in level 2 with PVG and Master
Editor. Very deep 
> 
> Lots of Luck
> 
> Leighton
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: somethingkillingyou <somethingkillingyo u@...>
> To: atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:53:31 AM
> Subject: [atari-midi- archives] Re: K3's additive user wave and
harmonic partials

> 
> that doesn't answer my question at all...
> 
> also, I think a real analog filter beats soft-o-crap any time.
> 
> --- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "Leighton"
> <methodman3000@ ...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In atari-midi-archives @yahoogroups. com, "somethingkillingyo u" 
> > <somethingkillingyo u@> wrote:
> > >Hi Fabio,
> > I owned a K3, K1 and K5 . The K3 is good for learning the 
> > parameters of what a synthesizer does. There is a button for every 
> > function. Beyond that softsynths take its place. I gave mine away 
> > to someone with small kids, because it great for learning about 
> > syntesizer sound making. It is not multi-timberal. Has small number 
> > of routings. Very fixed routings and Crow Music has created an 
> > instrument sounding exactly like what its gifts were called the Blue 
> > crow.;that is virtual. So I can use several different sounding K3. 
> > If you know how to think like a programmer, Why keep it? It's 
> > outdated. The additive synthesis is explained by using Reaktor. 
> > Samplers have developed so far. The help and tutorials to learn 
> > things are cheap. I am subscribing to VTC.com for $250 a year and I 
> > have access to about 35 different online Audio classes, in addition 
> > photoshop, illustrator that it is cheap to become an expert in 
> > anything now. So unless you are a newbie or have kids the K3 is not 
> > that hot.
> > 
> > Leighton
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Hi there
> > > 
> > > I'm new here, so here's my first question :)
> > > 
> > > I got a Kawai K3; you know this old synth has an additive user wave
> > > that you can determine by setting 32 harmonic partials 'non zero
> > > value' (1-31) choosable between the first 128 harmonic partials (the
> > > other 96 harmonics, unused, are 0 value by default)...
> > > 
> > > of course, I'm using Dr.T's K3edit to have a quick access to it 
> > (thank
> > > you!)...
> > > 
> > > I'd like to use it correctly but I've no idea what I'm doing: the
> > > problem is that you cannot "see" the shape of the waveform with the
> > > program...
> > > 
> > > is there an application that could help on this. i.e. a software 
> > that
> > > lets you tweak at least 32 partials out of 128 (the more the better)
> > > showing you the wave-shape so that you know what you're doing?
> > > 
> > > also, starting from some samples and isolating a single complete
> > > oscillation of the waveform you wanna reproduce (more or less
> > > complex), is it possible to know which harmonic partials have been
> > > used and their (approssimative) value?
> > > 
> > > I have a pc, but I'm using STeem, so softwares of both platforms are
> > > welcome...
> > > 
> > > 
> > > greetings
> > > 
> > > Fabio
> > >
> >
>

To have an idea how waves are generated by harmonics have a look at this fourier
Synthese online simulation:

http://www.schulphysik.de/ntnujava/sound/sound.html

Ciao
Peter

        \|/
       (o o)
--oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
                               Ing. Peter Ullrich   
	               Hardware & Software Developer  /  Electronic Musician
                               Private Homepage: http://www.ullrich.at.tt
   .oooO           
   (   )   Oooo.   
    \ (    (   )   
-----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
           (_/

--------------------------------------
Ein Service von http://www.networld.at

good advice, but I was looking for something like this:

http://www.schulphysik.de/java/physlet/applets/synthese.html

...but with 128 partials! here there are only 8...


greetings

Fabio

--- In atari-midi-archives@yahoogroups.com, Peter Ullrich <synpro@...>
wrote:
>
> 
> To have an idea how waves are generated by harmonics have a look at
this fourier
> Synthese online simulation:
> 
> http://www.schulphysik.de/ntnujava/sound/sound.html
> 
> Ciao
> Peter
> 
>         \|/
>        (o o)
> --oOOO--(_)--OOOo------------------------------------------------------
>                                Ing. Peter Ullrich   
> 	               Hardware & Software Developer  /  Electronic Musician
>                                Private Homepage:
http://www.ullrich.at.tt

>    .oooO           
>    (   )   Oooo.   
>     \ (    (   )   
> -----\_)----) /--------------------------------------------------------
>            (_/
> 
> --------------------------------------
> Ein Service von http://www.networld.at
>