The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Subject says it all. I really need a service guide for this thing.
Unless someone has any suggestions. TIA

Mr Bungle

Hi,

I would guess it's the usual CR2032, probably with a battery holder. They also 
used that type with holder in the FS1R...

...Summa


On 2 Mar 2005 at 4:10, ibenhad_twice@... wrote:

> 
> 
>   Subject says it all. I really need a service guide for this thing.
> Unless someone has any suggestions. TIA
> 
> Mr Bungle
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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I mean the battery drains after one month and I have to replace it.
There is something wrong internally. It is a pain to have to back up
to PC every patch I edit if I want to save it. I have replaced this
battery too many times. UGH!!!!!

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, ibenhad_twice@y... wrote:
> 
>   I mean the battery drains after one month and I have to replace it.
> There is something wrong internally. It is a pain to have to back up
> to PC every patch I edit if I want to save it. I have replaced this
> battery too many times. UGH!!!!!

Well, that's definitely not normal for an AN1x.  A few os us have
solicited for a service manual many times on this list was no luck. 
I'd suggest you consider having your board serviced.

Jon

This is almost certainly a defective (leaky) capzapitor in parallel with the
battery. Capacitors leak when they're brand new and it gets worse from
there. They'll eventually short out but that takes a good long while.

I don't have an AN1x (I have a PLG -- the easy-teenage-new-york-disco
version of the AN1x) so I can't tell you the location or PCB markings, but
it will almost certainly be an electrolytic capacitor of substantial value
(10-100ufd) and electrically parallel to the battery.

These parts are cheaper than dirt (good dirt though) so you can't really go
wrong replacing it as a test.

All battery-backup systems like this work the same way, so this advice will
also work for your PC's motherboard, your Minolta X700 happy-snap 35mm
camera, etc.

If someone will put up an accessible hi-res photo of both sides of the
board, I'll tell you the most likely candidates. They're REALLY cheap at
digikey or jameson, so it won't break your wallet to replace ALL the nearby
electrolytic capacitors with new matching parts.

> --- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, ibenhad_twice@y... wrote:
> >
> >   I mean the battery drains after one month and I have to replace it.
> > There is something wrong internally. It is a pain to have to back up
> > to PC every patch I edit if I want to save it. I have replaced this
> > battery too many times. UGH!!!!!
> 
> Well, that's definitely not normal for an AN1x.  A few os us have
> solicited for a service manual many times on this list was no luck.
> I'd suggest you consider having your board serviced.
> 
> Jon
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
> 
> The AN1x Control Synthesizer FAQ::
>   http://www.geocities.com/jondl_2000/an1x_faq/an1x_faq_toc.htm
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

how many times have you done this?
asking as perhaps the last battery was not that up...
if there is a drain on anything like this, it not a good sign.
Yamaha should have a service manual you can buy or do a bit of searching around to find the pdf.
I'll keep a eye open for a An1x. I have found a lot of manuals lately for older synths.

dale
admin@...
Lancaster CA

Are you a musician that needs to promote yourself or tell everyone about your
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band web pages
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Angel's Wings 
http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: ibenhad_twice@... 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 8:36 PM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x] AN1X Battery dies after 1 month HELP!!!!! Service Guide anyone?



    I mean the battery drains after one month and I have to replace it.
  There is something wrong internally. It is a pain to have to back up
  to PC every patch I edit if I want to save it. I have replaced this
  battery too many times. UGH!!!!!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You wouldn't happen to have Service Manual for JX-8P then? I bought 
recently one of those and it's has small problem with the preset 
buttons, and my friend has small problem his jx shutting down randomly, 
yet works just fine otherwise. I've tried to find jx-8p manual as pdf or 
so, but no luck at all. Only users manual is all what I could find.

Dale Kay wrote:

>how many times have you done this?
>asking as perhaps the last battery was not that up...
>if there is a drain on anything like this, it not a good sign.
>Yamaha should have a service manual you can buy or do a bit of searching around to find the pdf.
>I'll keep a eye open for a An1x. I have found a lot of manuals lately for older synths.
>
>
>  
>

or mouser... ;-)

but what if he isn't good with the solder iron? Jon's suggestion to take in for service would rule...

I learned a few times myself not to give out too deep a suggestion some will attempt that and have bad results... reversing the capacitor or not even knowing it's polarized, too hot a iron or leaving on the track for too long, wrong type of solder, wrong value ( you know, it's just a few numbers off..)

I do think you might be right and not one of the chips that is doing the drain...

mileage may vary...

dale
admin@...
Lancaster CA

Are you a musician that needs to promote yourself or tell everyone about your
musical event?
promotions_n_events-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
is designed just for this.

band web pages
Inquisitor Betrayer
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/inquisitorbetrayermusic.htm

Angel's Wings 
http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings

----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Giblet 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 9:02 PM
  Subject: RE: [AN1x] AN1X Battery dies after 1 month HELP!!!!! Service Guide anyone?


  This is almost certainly a defective (leaky) capzapitor in parallel with the
  battery. Capacitors leak when they're brand new and it gets worse from
  there. They'll eventually short out but that takes a good long while.

  I don't have an AN1x (I have a PLG -- the easy-teenage-new-york-disco
  version of the AN1x) so I can't tell you the location or PCB markings, but
  it will almost certainly be an electrolytic capacitor of substantial value
  (10-100ufd) and electrically parallel to the battery.

  These parts are cheaper than dirt (good dirt though) so you can't really go
  wrong replacing it as a test.

  All battery-backup systems like this work the same way, so this advice will
  also work for your PC's motherboard, your Minolta X700 happy-snap 35mm
  camera, etc.

  If someone will put up an accessible hi-res photo of both sides of the
  board, I'll tell you the most likely candidates. They're REALLY cheap at
  digikey or jameson, so it won't break your wallet to replace ALL the nearby
  electrolytic capacitors with new matching parts.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

owners manual in pdf...
check your mail...
surprise me too... I just looked in my collection of manuals and that was there...

a good group to get info on these things...
vintagesynthrepair-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

some items here
http://www.markglinsky.com/ManualManor.html

http://www.lazyblueoctopus.com/html/vintage_synth_docs.html

http://monsite.wanadoo.fr/nikko909/page2.html

If you join the group I mention and do a search or ask, you will find other sites with either pdfs there or a pay to get.

dale
admin@...
Lancaster CA

Are you a musician that needs to promote yourself or tell everyone about your
musical event?
promotions_n_events-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
is designed just for this.

band web pages
Inquisitor Betrayer
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/7/inquisitorbetrayermusic.htm

Angel's Wings 
http://www.soundclick.com/angelswings

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jouni Airaksinen 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 2:02 AM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x] AN1X Battery dies after 1 month HELP!!!!! Service Guide anyone?


  You wouldn't happen to have Service Manual for JX-8P then? I bought 
  recently one of those and it's has small problem with the preset 
  buttons, and my friend has small problem his jx shutting down randomly, 
  yet works just fine otherwise. I've tried to find jx-8p manual as pdf or 
  so, but no luck at all. Only users manual is all what I could find.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Pics are up in Battery Location folder in Photos. If you need more
let me know and Thanks in advance. I would love to be able to use this
without having to worry about the battery dying every couple of months.

Peace

You should make certain that you didn't grab a handful of expired batteries
before performing surgery...R-Shack doesn't cycle their inventory.

Assuming you're sure about the batteries and assuming you don't already know
all this gunk:

It's impossible to be sure from those pictures but it'll be either the black
or the blue electrolytic to the right of the battery holder in
'battery1.jpg'. If you have to make a guess, the black one is more likely
than the blue - only because it's slightly closer to the battery. If you can
verify that one of them is connected in parallel with the battery then that
will be the one most likely to be extra-leaky. A few Kohms of additional
leakage across those caps will drain a 2032 in a few weeks. It won't hurt
anything to replace them both.

Keep yourself (and nothing else) as grounded as possible, throughout the
operation, to avoid ESD damage and stray current damage. UNPLUG THE SYNTH
FROM THE WALL. Inductive voltages can build up on the iron and discharge
through one of the ICs if the synth is grounded in any way, which is a Bad
Thing. If you're grounded and nothing else is, there will be no problem.

If you have or can get water-based flux-core solder in a very-fine gauge
(18AWG or smaller), use that. It's easier to clean up the flux from the
board with the water-based stuff. You don't want to leave any flux behind as
it's usually corrosive and could cause a different failure later on. Don't
eat the solder. It contains lead. Don't scratch your eye, nose or ears with
the heated soldering iron because hot soldering irons are .. well .. hot.

Use a clean/silvered iron to remove the old parts after marking the + lead
on the PCB. Clean up any solder-balls that spatter about and remove the
excess solder from the solder pads on the PCB using wick, leaving two clean,
silvered holes where the capacitor used to be.

Make sure you keep the heat away from any of the silicon (the ICs) and make
sure you use the same value for replacements (it's OK to use a slightly
larger voltage rating as long as it will fit mechanically) and make
dead-certain you get the polarity correct.

When installing the new part(s), push them in the existing holes, from the
component side, until they bottom-out. Then, on the other side of the PCB,
bend one of the new leads in one direction and bend the other new lead in
the opposite direction. Don't cut the excess wire off until soldering is
complete. This will hold the part stationary during soldering which will
prevent the formation of microscopic fractures in the joint as the solder
cools.

Use just enough solder to get a solid bond and connection between the new
part(s) and the PCB. Too much solder can cause a short to adjacent lands on
the PCB. Try to keep the iron-to-PCB-contact-time to a minimum so you don't
fry the PCB traces off the phenolic board.

This really is a very low-risk procedure if you have even mediocre soldering
skills. Just take your time and keep the iron clean.

Oh yeah: no guarantee this will fix it. I'd put money on it though.

-Patrick

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ibenhad_twice@... [mailto:ibenhad_twice@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 10:13 PM
> To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AN1x] AN1X Battery dies after 1 month HELP!!!!! Service
> Guide anyone?
> 
> 
> 
>  Pics are up in Battery Location folder in Photos. If you need more
> let me know and Thanks in advance. I would love to be able to use this
> without having to worry about the battery dying every couple of months.
> 
> Peace
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
> 
> The AN1x Control Synthesizer FAQ::
>   http://www.geocities.com/jondl_2000/an1x_faq/an1x_faq_toc.htm
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>