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OT: Filters

OT: Filters

2003-09-11 by Martin Phillips

I have a question I've been wondering about for a while, and after reading
the following, it seems the right time and place to ask it:

Jon (I think) wrote about the filters on a new synth:

"The ION is noticeably missing any Sequential type filters. However, the
Oberheim filter types were, IMO, the standout filter types on the ION. The
Roland filters were nice too but for my money the Oberheim filters are VERY
impressive...."

Now, I don't know much about sound synthesis at all, but I do know that what
a filter does is remove certain frequencies (in subtractive synthesis at
least, which is all I know about). This being the case, in what way can the
filters on some machines be said to sound "warmer" or "better" than others,
when all they're doing is taking away some of the original "full" sound
(which may well be "warmer" or "better" than the "original full sound" of
another synth)?

I'm sure I'm missing some part of the equation. There's resonance, for
example, which although I think I know what it does (boosts the frequency
around the cut-off point, no?) I'm not savvy enough to add in to my question
about filters.

By the way, in answer to another question, I have no problem with reading
(or choosing not to read) off-topic stuff about other synths, etc. on this
list.

Gracias,
Martin

Re: [AN1x] OT: Filters

2003-09-12 by Bruce Wahler

Hi Martin,

>I have a question I've been wondering about for a while, and after reading
>the following, it seems the right time and place to ask it:
>
>Jon (I think) wrote about the filters on a new synth:
>
>"The ION is noticeably missing any Sequential type filters. However, the
>Oberheim filter types were, IMO, the standout filter types on the ION. The
>Roland filters were nice too but for my money the Oberheim filters are VERY
>impressive...."
>
>Now, I don't know much about sound synthesis at all, but I do know that what
>a filter does is remove certain frequencies (in subtractive synthesis at
>least, which is all I know about). This being the case, in what way can the
>filters on some machines be said to sound "warmer" or "better" than others,
>when all they're doing is taking away some of the original "full" sound
>(which may well be "warmer" or "better" than the "original full sound" of
>another synth)?
>
>I'm sure I'm missing some part of the equation. There's resonance, for
>example, which although I think I know what it does (boosts the frequency
>around the cut-off point, no?) I'm not savvy enough to add in to my question
>about filters.

In theory you are correct:  a filter allows certain frequencies to pass, and blocks others.  In practice, though, there is no such thing as a perfect filter.  Every filter design has tradeoffs, and the different filters used by Moog, ARP, Sequential, Roland, Oberheim and others all had sound characteristics that were based on these tradeoffs and the electronics used to make the filter.  For one thing, there's the "steepness" of the filter; i.e., how quickly the filter changes from passing frequencies to blocking them.  In electronics, this is measured in dB/octave, and is often referred to by the number of "poles" that the filter has.  (Each pole is 6dB/octave.)  Filters with less poles are easier to design and control -- certainly, in the analog days -- but less poles means that the filter allows a greater amount of unwanted frequencies through.

Then, as you mentioned, there's resonance.  In our perfect filter, resonance doesn't even occur, but in any real-world filter with at least two poles, it can.  Because the resonance adds an airy quality to the sound, and can even be used to create a pitch of its own in extreme cases, analog synth players came to depend on this effect to add character to the sound.

Then there are the esoteric properties of the filter like "warmth" and "metallic-ness."  These are harder to quantify, but have to do with the fact that as different frequencies pass through a filter, the phase relationships of the frequencies change, both intentionally and unintentionally.  Plus, there are  unplanned byproducts of the circuitry that makes up the filter (uneven frequency response, oscillation due to amplifier feedback, component overdrive, etc.)  If one were to program a virtually identical sound -- same base waveform, cutoff frequency, style of filter, number of poles -- on a Minimoog, ARP 2600, and Prophet 5, the result would be audibly different, because each synth's filter changes the waveform subtly during the filtering process.

In addition, in the digital world there is another factor in the digital resolution of both the native audio system and the filter modulation.  Low-resolution digital systems are described as "grainy" (analogous to photo quality) and digital modulation sometimes includes discrete jumps between points which can be heard by the ear and seen on the oscilloscope; these effect are sometimes referred to as "stairstep" or "zipper" noise.

This is a very brief description of a complex subject, but I hope it gives you a little insight into the various effects that filters add to the sound.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

Re: OT: Filters

2003-09-12 by Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:
> 
> This is a very brief description of a complex subject, but I hope it gives you a little 
insight into the various effects that filters add to the sound.
>

Splendid write up Bruce! Well done.

Jon

Re: [AN1x] OT: Filters

2003-09-12 by Ed Edwards

Hi Martin,
    Just coming in after Bruce's excellent overview, I'd just add a little
about resonance.
    In theory, a filter's response can be drawn as a nice curve which
eliminates frequencies at a particular rate.  So if it was linear it would
cut off signals at an arithmetic rate such as 12db or 24db per octave like
the AN1x emulates.  But devices such as capacitors, resistors, coils,
circuit boards and other parameters do not have "theoretical
characteristics".  Therefore, the developers of Virtual Analog emulators
(like the AN1x, Roland JP8xxx series the Ion and others) try to mimic the
quirks of old analog electronic hardware design inaccuracies.
    Resonance as a synth parameter is usually at the frequency where the
filter starts to cut off the sound.  So if you have your filter set to cut
off 1kHz, there is a little more passage of that particular frequency to the
output because of the imperfections of the circuitry.  The synth designers
decided that this quirk may be a good thing and produced components and
knobs that emphasized that peak.  Due to the way electronics behave, this
filter peak could be driven to the point that it produced a signal on its
own with no oscillator input.  This is called self-resonance and can be
pretty cool (and can be dang over used as well).  A great example of strong
filter cutoff and resonance is the reknown TB-303.
    Anyway, enjoy your AN1x.  It's design is still very much useful as a
musical instrument.

Ed Edwards
Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel      \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdRetro-Progressive Rock\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd
http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd

Re: [AN1x] OT: Filters

2003-09-12 by martinez21

Ed Edwards wrote:

> Anyway, enjoy your AN1x.

Oh, I do, I do :-)

(Except that Reason seems to have taken over recently as my main 
sound source, due to laziness more than anything else. The first (and 
only) half decent tune I've done for ages was composed in Reason: 
http://www.mp3.com.au/gingerosity/ (click on "Float") - a totally OT 
track because it doesn't have an AN1x in it at all, anywhere. Sorry. 
Ignore.)

Thanks for answering my question, folks - much appreciated. A lot of 
it went over my head, but it certainly explained *why* all filters 
are different.

Martin

Re: [AN1x] OT: Filters

2003-09-12 by Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "martinez21" <martin@b...> wrote:
> Thanks for answering my question, folks - much appreciated. A lot of 
> it went over my head, but it certainly explained *why* all filters 
> are different.
> 
> Martin

Martin,

You might want to print off and keep the two write ups from Bruce and Ed - they're  
as accurate and well written as anything you'll find in SOS or Keyboard. You *will* 
benefit from the info as some point event if you feel it's 'over your head' today (which 
it probably isn't.)

Jon

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