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OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION) - long

OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION) - long

2003-09-11 by Jon

1st off, it was *great* seeing everybody at the Craig Anderton/Alesis ION seminar last 
night - really enjoyed myself! Sayer and I hooked up and took his wife's new car ;-) 
met David from the ION list here at Yahoo! Groups
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alesis-ion/

then Ed showed up after work (congrats on the new job!!!) along with Ming (ex-ASRX 
list) and Peter from WMC (good luck at the gig in Baltimore tonight.)

The seminar was presented as an introduction to Virtual Analog synths sponsored by 
Alesis. Apparently Anderton wanted to make it clear the topic was general purpose 
using the ION only as an example but this quickly dissolved into a product specific 
demo and Anderton readily admitted the more he worked with the ION the greater his 
appreciation for it. The presentation was very much a techno geek, keyboard weenie 
type of affair and Ed pointed out, probably on the mark, they should have had a more 
proficient keyboard player (read: flashier) demo the instrument - and a subwoofer 
would have been welcome to showcase the ION low end. I think Ed is on the money 
with these observation but I was so impressed with hearing Anderton speak at a 
seminar I can't say it occurred to me ;-)

The highlights were as follows:

there was compelling discussion on the reemergence of user friendly interface design 
on electronic instruments (as opposed to digital displays, data sliders and numeric 
keypads) and how we as musicians listen and perform driven by left brain vs. right 
brain hemispheres.

The construction of the ION is impressive - much more so than the AN1x in regards 
to the knobs, wheels, audio i/o jacks and case. Solid metal case, sealed rotary 
encoders affixed with nuts to the case (so you don't press down on the PCB board 
every time you turn a knob), solid tactile feel to the knobs, etc. The keyboard is 
rubbish 
- no two ways about it - and there is no aftertouch but there is a 2nd mod wheel to 
make up for the latter. Since AN1x users typically dislike the AT on the AN1x this is 
probably okay but you might not want to use it as controller - something the AN1x is 
okay at. The UI is certainly friendly enough, think Synth 101 basics, and the display is 
nicer than the AN1x but the angle is kind of 'off' (mentioned in the Keyboard review 
too.) IMHO this would be okay of it were angled slightly so you didn't have to lean so 
far over the synth. Probably not a big deal.

The sound quality is awesome but it does *not* sound like an AN1x. Where as the 
AN1x is Prophet-5 knock off the ION is noticeably missing any Sequential type filters. 
However, the Oberheim filter types were, IMO, the standout filter types on the ION. 
The Roland filters were nice too but for my money the Oberheim filters are VERY 
impressive. For comparison sake the ION offers something like seventeen filter types 
(with more on the way!) as compared to the AN1x' six. The ION Modulation Matrix is 
comparable to the AN1x CtrlMatrix. The AN1x offers more 'sets', 16 vs. 12, but the 
ION might offer a few more parameters. Really, IMO, it's a toss up which one comes 
out 
ahead. For me the difference would be how the ION Depth setting works in relation to 
the Depth parameter on the AN1x. I sometimes find it limiting that the AN1x forces 
you to use a setting of Direct for certain parameters when I'd rather limit the 
parameter to a range of values (see page 10 of the Data List.) Without spending some 
'quality time' with the ION I can't comment any further on this.

The Real Time control is more immediate than the AN1x - this is a good thing, IMO. I 
love the Assign Knobs on the AN1x but I've always found that I have to pre-plan what 
controls I want 'live' in my Voices as opposed to being able to experiment with more 
abandon - this is why I've always admired the Nord Lead 2 keyboard. I can tell you 
one thing: after last mights demo and the recent conversation on the list I'm picking 
up a new FC7 foot-pedal *today* What a useful tool - I *need* one ;-)

The resolution of the ION controls is certainly impressive: no noticeable stepping!!! 
Apparently the ION sends/receives NRPNs as opposed to MIDI CCs to preserve the 
enhanced bit resolution of the encoders. I did not realize the MIDI Spec allowed for 
this so I'm off to do some reading on this shortly. I think there's something in the list 
archives...

They did point out a 'bug' in that the Oscillators alias in the higher registers. 
Apparently this was fixed and then broken in an '11th hour bug fix' and Alesis will 
have an OS update for download in the near future that corrects it. There's another 
plus: FLASH upgradeable OS as opposed to EPROM chips. They made no secret that 
there would be new Filter types and additional Effects. There is currently no delay line 
(this *might* be added) and no Reverb - the latter will NOT be added (but who cares, 
Reverb on $1000 MSRP keyboards isn't all that.) The ION Arpeggiator offered many 
types but I don't recall the number compared to the AN1x. The next OS update is 
suppose to enhance the ION Arp so it transmits via the MIDI Out (something the AN1x 
already does) - it already syncs to MIDI Clock AND offers a Tap Tempo feature that 
actually works.

Another plus: the ION offers a pair of audio inputs which can be processed by the 
synth engine and/or FX. Anderton had his guitar plugged into the ION to show some 
of the effects and this was certainly nice but it didn't floor me - the hour was late and 
they were hurrying to finish up the nearly 2 hour(!) presentation. The Vocoder demo 
sounded good enough that you would like to hear more but, again, the presentation 
wasn't all that.

Hope this is helpful. As I said, it was GREAT seeing everybody last night and making 
new acquaintances. We'll have to do it again soon. There's another seminar in 
December I think so we'll target that one I think. Now I'm off to Guitar Center for that 
FC7 pedal ;-)

regards,

Jon

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-11 by Bruce Wahler

Hi Jon,

I took the plunge and bought an ION a couple weeks ago.  It was on back order, but should be arriving on my doorstep tomorrow or Friday.   :^)

I bought it based on the features, sounds off the web, the cost, and the generally great reviews it has received, both from the press and early owners.  I paid less than $700US for mine, through a music store I have used for a long time.  (The going rate seems to be around $730-750US, delivered; people like zZ and MF have them for $799 and free shipping.)

The only area of concern is the keyboard.  Alesis has been notorious for synths with mediocre keyboards.  When you say that the keyboard is "rubbish," can you elaborate?  What didn't you like?  Is it similar to the AN1x keyboard (that many owners seem to hate)?

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-11 by Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:
> The only area of concern is the keyboard.  Alesis has been notorious for synths 
with mediocre keyboards.  When you say that the keyboard is "rubbish," can you 
elaborate?  What didn't you like?  Is it similar to the AN1x keyboard (that many owners 
seem to hate)?
> 

It feels really cheap and has poor travel. IMO, it's more along the lines of the 
keyboard used on the Yammie S03 rather than the version used on the AN1x. Still, 
considering the ION is designed for 'one hand on the wheel driving' - hahaha ;-) it's 
not likely to make much difference *unless* you plan to use it as master controller. If 
you're sensitive to keyboard 'touch' than stick with you master controller MIDI'ed to 
your rack modules and use the ION as a secondary keyboard. I suspect you're going 
to be really happy with the ION despite the keyboard and look forward to reading 
your two cents. Me, I still want my MW II back ;-) but I'm very impressed by the ION.

Jon

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-11 by Bruce Wahler

Hi Jon,

>--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:
>> The only area of concern is the keyboard.  Alesis has been notorious for synths 
>with mediocre keyboards.  When you say that the keyboard is "rubbish," can you 
>elaborate?  What didn't you like?  Is it similar to the AN1x keyboard (that many owners 
>seem to hate)?
>> 
>
>It feels really cheap and has poor travel. IMO, it's more along the lines of the 
>keyboard used on the Yammie S03 rather than the version used on the AN1x. Still, 
>considering the ION is designed for 'one hand on the wheel driving' - hahaha ;-) it's 
>not likely to make much difference *unless* you plan to use it as master controller. 

Since the knobs and switches get sent by NRPN, it's not going to make much of a master controller -- at least, not without some MIDI "glue" in the middle of the chain.  NRPN is a MIDI feature that has never lived up to its potential, and there certainly isn't any sort of "General NRPN" standard for who does what to whom.  I may end up springing for one of those knob boxes to control other modules, or keep the AN1x in that capacity.

And a general question to the list:  Do OT conversations about the Ion, Virus, Waldorf interest or annoy you?  I'd love to post a "test drive" of the Ion to the group, but not if it annoys the other members.  Might have to start an Ion list ...

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-11 by Peter Korsten

Bruce Wahler schreef:

> And a general question to the list:  Do OT conversations about the Ion, Virus, Waldorf interest or annoy you?  I'd love to post a "test drive" of the Ion to the group, but not if it annoys the other members.  Might have to start an Ion list ...

Provided they are kept in check, I think off-topic subjects can be very 
constructive for a list. Chances are that readers of this list have a 
more than passing interest in virtual analogue synthesisers, and as such 
might well be interested in these synths.

It would be another story if this list turned into an Ion list where we 
occassionally discuss the Yamaha AN synths too, but the good folks at 
www.ampfea.org have provided us with a nice mailing list - without all 
the advertising and data mining from Yahoo!, I should add.

- Peter

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-12 by Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:
> Since the knobs and switches get sent by NRPN, it's not going to make much of a 
master controller -- at least, not without some MIDI "glue" in the middle of the chain.  
NRPN is a MIDI feature that has never lived up to its potential, and there certainly isn't 
any sort of "General NRPN" standard for who does what to whom.  I may end up 
springing for one of those knob boxes to control other modules, or keep the AN1x in 
that capacity.
> 

I understand where your coming from in regards to NRPN. My homegrown Logic 
Environment for the ASR-X sampler (not the free MR/ASR-X Dancetools environment) 
is 90% NRPNs - works like a champ but I'd hate to have remap or apply Transformers 
to make it general purpose. Yuck :-(

And yes, those general purpose slider boxes are VERY appealing and do kind of 
minimize the AN1x Assign Knobs to a degree. If you have a few extra dollars to spend 
you might take a look at the new controller from Novation. Very sexy indeed. Or the 
M-Audio Oxygen or Ozone or those cheapo Evolution boxes (now a subsidiary of M-
Audio, go figure?)


> And a general question to the list:  Do OT conversations about the Ion, Virus, 
Waldorf interest or annoy you?  I'd love to post a "test drive" of the Ion to the group, 
but not if it annoys the other members.  Might have to start an Ion list ...
> 

Bruce, there is already an active ION list - see my earlier post for Yahoo! Groups URL 
(I've already subscribed.) And as for OT - since I started this thread I can hardly be 
objective ;-) but so long as we keep it relative to the AN1x I *think* we're okay. The 
ION is a very exciting, and cost effective(!), V/A - much like the AN1x was six years 
ago. I can't see myself unloading the AN1x for an ION but I can certainly see why 
people would consider this option (like Sayer for example.)

And btw, do you still have those alternative power supplies for the AN1x? Email 
offline if so...

Jon

Re: [AN1x] OT: JON vs. ION (or AN1x vs. ION)

2003-09-13 by Sayer

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:

> Since the knobs and switches get sent by NRPN, it's not going to 
> make much of a master controller -- at least, not without some 
> MIDI "glue" in the middle of the chain.  

Craig Anderton told us that the Ion can also send CC instead of NRPN.

Sayer

Alternate power supply for AN1x?

2003-09-15 by Mike Metlay

Jon said:
> And btw, do you still have those alternative power supplies for the AN1x?
> Email offline if so...

Did I miss something here? I am curious about such a beast, esp. if it's a
small switching supply rather than the honking bog box the AN1x currently
uses.

mike

-- 
On her web site, she proudly notes that talk show host and political
comedian Dennis Miller has described her as "a cross between Carl Sagan
and Madonna." Considering what Carl Sagan has done for science and what
Madonna has done for music, I consider this a remarkably apt analogy.
> < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > <
metlay / atomic city / metlay@... / http://www.atomiccity.com

Re: Alternate power supply for AN1x?

2003-09-15 by Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Metlay" <metlay@a...> wrote:
> 
> Jon said:
> > And btw, do you still have those alternative power supplies for the AN1x?
> > Email offline if so...
> 
> Did I miss something here? I am curious about such a beast, esp. if it's a
> small switching supply rather than the honking bog box the AN1x currently
> uses.
> 
> mike
> 

Mike,

Bruce offers for sale a quality 'lump in the line' type AC Adapter suitable for the AN1x. 
I've just ordered one from him today actually - my PA3B will now serve as a back-up/
spare.

Jon

Re: [AN1x] Re: Alternate power supply for AN1x?

2003-09-15 by Mike Metlay

Jon said:
> --- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Metlay" <metlay@a...> wrote:
>>
>> Jon said:
>> > And btw, do you still have those alternative power supplies for the AN1x?
>> > Email offline if so...
>>
>> Did I miss something here? I am curious about such a beast, esp. if it's a
>> small switching supply rather than the honking bog box the AN1x currently
>> uses.
>>
>> mike
>>
>
> Mike,
>
> Bruce offers for sale a quality 'lump in the line' type AC Adapter suitable
> for the AN1x.
> I've just ordered one from him today actually - my PA3B will now serve as a
> back-up/
> spare.
>
> Jon

Ah. I was hoping for one of those little tiny switching supplies that are
becoming popular now. My PA3B is doing fine for me at the moment, and if the
one Bruce has is not significantly lighter, I don't think I'd need it.

mike

-- 
On her web site, she proudly notes that talk show host and political
comedian Dennis Miller has described her as "a cross between Carl Sagan
and Madonna." Considering what Carl Sagan has done for science and what
Madonna has done for music, I consider this a remarkably apt analogy.
> < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > < > <
metlay / atomic city / metlay@... / http://www.atomiccity.com

Re: [AN1x] Re: Alternate power supply for AN1x?

2003-09-15 by Bruce Wahler

Hi All,

>> Bruce offers for sale a quality 'lump in the line' type AC Adapter suitable
>> for the AN1x.
>> I've just ordered one from him today actually - my PA3B will now serve as a
>> back-up/
>> spare.
>>
>> Jon
>
>Ah. I was hoping for one of those little tiny switching supplies that are
>becoming popular now. My PA3B is doing fine for me at the moment, and if the
>one Bruce has is not significantly lighter, I don't think I'd need it.

It's not a lot smaller -- it's profile is sort of like a pack of American 100mm cigarettes -- but it is a LOT lighter (7 oz., maybe?).  It also runs well on 100-250VAC, 50 or 60Hz, and has more power output than the PA-3B; both features will help fight brownouts.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

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