The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

I've noticed that distorted effects are very susceptible to EQ in 
just about any context.

I also notice that I don't have a clue how to use the EQ in the AN1X 
very well. Especially with the Distortion, Overdrive and Amp Sim 
effects. What does the LPF in the Amp Sim do? What are the EQ 
differences (scoop, emphasis) between stack, combo and tube?

Anyone have any tips for getting good distorted sounds that don't 
break up? Particularly when you sweep the filter.

One type of sound that I have tried to get is .... a thin nasal 
distorted sound with a lot of high frequency buzz and not 
much "rumble" from the distortion. It's something I hear a lot from 
rock keyboardists like Derek Sherinian. I hear that kinda tone in 
Korg keyboards, it seems.

Any advice?

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

>I also notice that I don't have a clue how to use the EQ in the AN1X 
>very well. Especially with the Distortion, Overdrive and Amp Sim 
>effects. What does the LPF in the Amp Sim do? What are the EQ 
>differences (scoop, emphasis) between stack, combo and tube?

In theory, the Stack is supposed to simulate a typical English Marshall/Hiwatt/etc. amp with two 4x12" speaker "stacks," which the Combo is supposed to simulate a 2x12" combo amp like the Fender Twin or the Vox AC30.  I'm not sure what Tube is supposed to simulate, but I find it to be the best of the three.  

The LPF refers to the fact that most tube amps lose high end when they're overdriven at the output stage.  The harder they're driven, the more the high end rolls off.  This LPF is a fixed amount, unlike the VCF in the AN1x.  It helps to take the edge off the sound.  There is a balance that must be struck between the VCA level of the patch, the Gain setting of the tube simulation, and the LPF frequency to get the right tone.

>Anyone have any tips for getting good distorted sounds that don't 
>break up? Particularly when you sweep the filter.

I submitted a sound called GuitarSync in the lead "contest" last fall.  It was a simulation of the Steve Vai/Eric Johnson/Yngwie Malmsteen style of over-the-top lead, and it uses the tube amp.  Check it out.  It works well with arpeggiated riffs in minor keys.  One scene is mono for leads, and the other is poly for backing riffs.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

> The LPF refers to the fact that most tube amps lose high end when they're
overdriven at the output stage.  The harder they're driven, the more the
high end rolls off.  This LPF is a fixed amount, unlike the VCF in the AN1x.
It helps to take the edge off the sound.  There is a balance that must be
struck between the VCA level of the patch, the Gain setting of the tube
simulation, and the LPF frequency to get the right tone.

Agreed --- now here's the hard part --- the LPF effect in a tube amp is
dynamic.  That means that at lower volumes the treble portion is let through
but at high volumes the "scoop" effect kicks in proportionally to the amount
of volume.  Most synths can't properly simulate this audio effect.

The LPF property of overdriven tube amps falls under the "happy accident"
theory.  Similar to Leo Fender's production of the Telecaster, which is sort
of a hard body banjo, therefore the twang sound... Fender was more
interested in profits than sound in his design but stumbled on a useful and
different musical instrument.  His happy accident was that he created a
sound which was previously difficult to produce.  The LPF property of a
Marshall or whatever amp which has been fed voltage beyond the design's
parameters is a happy accident.  The Marshall amps were designed to provide
"clean" guitar sounds.  Players found out about the overdrive through
experimentation.  Legend has it that when Eric Clapton played his overdriven
Marshall sound in the studio the engineer was very angry and said that the
sound was bad, and said that nobody would listen to his record.  Sorry Mr.
Engineer.  Maybe the "cabinet emulation" section of the AN1x might be able
to provide a similar filtering effect.

Ed Edwards
Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel      \ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffdRetro-Progressive Rock\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd
http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd\ufffd.\ufffd\ufffd

A couple of things...

    One is, I mentioned here before about this, that it was a real eye opener for me to play with EQ with my guitar in the mix. I got the guitar (in the song at my site called "shot in the dark" at  http://home.online.no/~jacker ) to where I wanted it while adjusting EQ and all on my effects pedal while playing little riffs in the mix. My main point is, I wasn't soloing it, but adjusting a little, playing, adjusting, playing.... The guitar in that solo, I got exactly the guitar sound I was after. Mixed it down and was mostly done with the song. Some months later I was listening to the mix again, and for the first time I accidentally solo'ed the guitar solo...I heard it alone, not in the mix. MAAN....what a terrible sounding guitar that was. I assumed I had picked some take or other that I had not used, but found out that that terrible screeching guitar, when I brought up the rest of the mix suddenly sounded sweet and just right. Sat there and played with it and played with it, and it was amazing, without being in the mix, it just sounded thin and broke up all the time, bring up the mix and it sounded like butter!  So how you want to set it really depends on if you are going to feature the one instrument sound or if it will be playing with other instruments. I am thinking about making a small MP3 of that guitar soloed and letting people hear the difference, it is that drastic.

Another thing, just from my experience with the AN1x is, since I always am running mine direct into my mixer/recorder which has three band EQ, I prefer to just set it flat in the An1x and adjust at the mixer. I know the EQ on the mixer, and it is easy to work with, on top of that I often record it flat also, (unless I am really sure I need some  EQ fix) and on mixdown I play with the EQ. 

Also I have some guitar pedals that work well with the An1x, and there again, I can use some of the guitar amp sims and I think they are pretty well designed. I haven't tried yet, but another option I have been playing with is sending the mono signal to a small practice amp, through a guitar pedal board, etc. and then micing.

There are so many options. I think the answers you have gotten so far are really enlightening, I didn't know about the theory behind the amp sims, with low freq etc. So I am really glad you brought this up!

Good luck!

Jim

====================================================
=             Check out my original music at  =
=             http://home.online.no/~jacker  =
=                             OR                             =
= http://www.soundclick.com/bands/jacker_music.htm  =
====================================================

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Ed Edwards" <edward.edwards@...>
To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2003 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [AN1x] EQ and effects


> > The LPF refers to the fact that most tube amps lose high end when they're
> overdriven at the output stage.  The harder they're driven, the more the
> high end rolls off.  This LPF is a fixed amount, unlike the VCF in the AN1x.
> It helps to take the edge off the sound.  There is a balance that must be
> struck between the VCA level of the patch, the Gain setting of the tube
> simulation, and the LPF frequency to get the right tone.
> 
> Agreed --- now here's the hard part --- the LPF effect in a tube amp is
> dynamic.  That means that at lower volumes the treble portion is let through
> but at high volumes the "scoop" effect kicks in proportionally to the amount
> of volume.  Most synths can't properly simulate this audio effect.
> 
> The LPF property of overdriven tube amps falls under the "happy accident"
> theory.  Similar to Leo Fender's production of the Telecaster, which is sort
> of a hard body banjo, therefore the twang sound... Fender was more
> interested in profits than sound in his design but stumbled on a useful and
> different musical instrument.  His happy accident was that he created a
> sound which was previously difficult to produce.  The LPF property of a
> Marshall or whatever amp which has been fed voltage beyond the design's
> parameters is a happy accident.  The Marshall amps were designed to provide
> "clean" guitar sounds.  Players found out about the overdrive through
> experimentation.  Legend has it that when Eric Clapton played his overdriven
> Marshall sound in the studio the engineer was very angry and said that the
> sound was bad, and said that nobody would listen to his record.  Sorry Mr.
> Engineer.  Maybe the "cabinet emulation" section of the AN1x might be able
> to provide a similar filtering effect.
> 
> Ed Edwards
> Leader: Ezekiel's Wheel      »»»»Retro-Progressive Rock««««
> http://www.untiedmusic.com/ezekiel
> http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/227/ezekiels_wheel.html
> °·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°·.·°
> 
> 
> 
> Community email addresses:
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>

Thanks everyone for your comments ... It seems that I almost always 
select a very low drive setting (between 1 and 5) for these effects 
because they get crackly very soon. Bruce based on your comments, I 
guess I can reduce the propensity to break up by playing with the VCA 
level, right? I tend to use unison mode, that may be a factor too. I 
couldnt't tell what the LPF is doing, but based on what you said, I 
guess it filters the sound that is being routed through the effects 
but not the dry sound (if you mix wet and dry). I'll check out that 
sync sound.

Anybody use an outboard distortion/overdrive like POD? Does it make a 
difference?

Cheers,

Jerry

>     One is, I mentioned here before about this, that it was a real 
eye opener for me to play with EQ with my guitar in the mix. I got 
the guitar (in the song at my site called "shot in the dark" at  
http://home.online.no/~jacker ) to where I wanted it while adjusting 
EQ and all on my effects pedal while playing little riffs in the mix. 
My main point is, I wasn't soloing it, but adjusting a little, 
playing, adjusting, playing.... The guitar in that solo, I got 
exactly the guitar sound I was after. Mixed it down and was mostly 
done with the song. Some months later I was listening to the mix 
again, and for the first time I accidentally solo'ed the guitar 
solo...I heard it alone, not in the mix. MAAN....what a terrible 
sounding guitar that was. I assumed I had picked some take or other 
that I had not used, but found out that that terrible screeching 
guitar, when I brought up the rest of the mix suddenly sounded sweet 
and just right. Sat there and played with it and played with it, and 
it was amazing, without being in the mix, it just sounded thin and 
broke up all the time, bring up the mix and it sounded like butter!  
So how you want to set it really depends on if you are going to 
feature the one instrument sound or if it will be playing with other 
instruments. I am thinking about making a small MP3 of that guitar 
soloed and letting people hear the difference, it is that drastic.


Jim - I would like to hear that before and after mp3. Thanks.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

It seems that the AN1x's tube simulator is more useful for heavy distortion than milder overdrive.  I haven't ever tried to use it for tube "warmth" without distortion.  The GuitarSync patch I mentioned uses Drive=10 and VCA=115 (for the mono version) or VCA=105 (for the poly version).

I don't use a Pod or stomp box, but I do feed the AN1x into an ART Dual MP tube preamp set for a fairly mild amount of warmth.

Regards,

-BW
--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions\ufffd   http://music.ashbysolutions.com
978.386.7389  voice/fax
bruce@...

At 06:44 PM 4/21/2003 +0000, you wrote:

>Thanks everyone for your comments ... It seems that I almost always 
>select a very low drive setting (between 1 and 5) for these effects 
>because they get crackly very soon. Bruce based on your comments, I 
>guess I can reduce the propensity to break up by playing with the VCA 
>level, right? I tend to use unison mode, that may be a factor too. I 
>couldnt't tell what the LPF is doing, but based on what you said, I 
>guess it filters the sound that is being routed through the effects 
>but not the dry sound (if you mix wet and dry). I'll check out that 
>sync sound.
>
>Anybody use an outboard distortion/overdrive like POD? Does it make a 
>difference?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Jerry

I use a Line6 Pod often with my An1x. I don't
really like the built in distortion/overdrive/
amp sims of the An1x. The nice thing about the 
Pod is that you can add a very small amount of 
distortion and you have a lot of choices.  

I've put just about everything I own through the
Pod at one point or another (Drums for sure, vocals,
synths & samplers). Even if you're not looking for
distortion, the Pod has a clean preamp setting which
warms up synths nicely.

-Steve

> >Anybody use an outboard distortion/overdrive like POD? Does it 
make a 

> >difference?
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Jerry