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Middle Easten Flava's

Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-06 by pharoahscully <peter.scullion@talk21.com>

Hello all,

I'm working on some middle Eastern influenced (Maybe not the ideal 
thing to mention considering the current political climate) music, @ 
the minute...

& was wondering if anyones got any tips or patches that would help me 
create something close(ish) to a middle Eastern Reed type 
(Nagiswarmish) instrument?

Obviously the way you play the notes goes a great deal towards this - 
Been reading up on some Arabic Modes & Rhythms (Takes us back to the 
recent discussions - I dont play any instruments/am a non musician - 
but some knowledge of theory is esential to expand your pallete)

I know Physical Moddeling would be more ideal but the AN's my only 
tool...

& it dosent have to be particuarly realistic just have those timbral 
elements if you no what I mean...

Any advice would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance

P

Re: Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-08 by Jerry Aiyathurai <tuskerfort@hotmail.com>

> I'm working on some middle Eastern influenced (Maybe not the ideal 
> thing to mention considering the current political climate) music, 
@ 
> the minute...
> 
> & was wondering if anyones got any tips or patches that would help 
me 
> create something close(ish) to a middle Eastern Reed type 
> (Nagiswarmish) instrument?

Hi Peter:

I am a big fan of double reed instruments (nagesuram, shawm, oboe, 
duduk) too. I grew up listening to the nagasuram and I have loved 
Djivan Gasparyan's duduk timbres with Peter Gabriel. What a 
concidence! I did a monophonic piece recently with a patch to test 
the capabilities of the AN1X with that kind of material.  

Here's how to get the tune and the patch. Go to Yahoo briefcase and 
sign in as rimskyrimsky with a password of 11231123.

http://briefcase.yahoo.com/

The piece is called Monologue and is in the Monologue folder. The 
patch is called EarthHorn and is in the My Documents folder. 

The patch isn't a replica of any of these instruments ...  but the 
idea was to force the synth to be expressive in the tradition of 
monophonic instruments such these. When writing the piece, I did 
migrate from the double reed to some distinctly electronic timbres in 
order to maintain interest. Although the AN1X is not a reed model, I 
found that it could quite evocative. The only area where I found it a 
little lacking was in the attack (chiff). If I was to do a strictly 
emulative patch, I would dedicate one scene to getting the attack 
right. Something I didn't do in this case, since I wanted the 
electronic timbres.

More about the patch:

- Inverted envelope on main patch, hold out the note and use 
aftertouch to sweeten the tone
- pitch bending (+-3) on the X ribbon
- pitch bending (+-12) on the pitch wheel
- accented attack (pitch envelope) on the Z ribbon
- You can brighten the sound to taste with knob # 5
- You can morph to the second scene creating sidebands for effect if 
you like

Hope you like it,

Jerry

Re: [AN1x] Re: Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-08 by John Temprile

Nice Jerry!

 --- "Jerry Aiyathurai <tuskerfort@...>"
<tuskerfort@...> wrote: > 
> > I'm working on some middle Eastern influenced (Maybe not the
> ideal 
> > thing to mention considering the current political climate)
> music, 
> @ 
> > the minute...
> > 
> > & was wondering if anyones got any tips or patches that
> would help 
> me 
> > create something close(ish) to a middle Eastern Reed type 
> > (Nagiswarmish) instrument?
> 
> Hi Peter:
> 
> I am a big fan of double reed instruments (nagesuram, shawm,
> oboe, 
> duduk) too. I grew up listening to the nagasuram and I have
> loved 
> Djivan Gasparyan's duduk timbres with Peter Gabriel. What a 
> concidence! I did a monophonic piece recently with a patch to
> test 
> the capabilities of the AN1X with that kind of material.  
> 
> Here's how to get the tune and the patch. Go to Yahoo
> briefcase and 
> sign in as rimskyrimsky with a password of 11231123.
> 
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/
> 
> The piece is called Monologue and is in the Monologue folder.
> The 
> patch is called EarthHorn and is in the My Documents folder. 
> 
> The patch isn't a replica of any of these instruments ...  but
> the 
> idea was to force the synth to be expressive in the tradition
> of 
> monophonic instruments such these. When writing the piece, I
> did 
> migrate from the double reed to some distinctly electronic
> timbres in 
> order to maintain interest. Although the AN1X is not a reed
> model, I 
> found that it could quite evocative. The only area where I
> found it a 
> little lacking was in the attack (chiff). If I was to do a
> strictly 
> emulative patch, I would dedicate one scene to getting the
> attack 
> right. Something I didn't do in this case, since I wanted the 
> electronic timbres.
> 
> More about the patch:
> 
> - Inverted envelope on main patch, hold out the note and use 
> aftertouch to sweeten the tone
> - pitch bending (+-3) on the X ribbon
> - pitch bending (+-12) on the pitch wheel
> - accented attack (pitch envelope) on the Z ribbon
> - You can brighten the sound to taste with knob # 5
> - You can morph to the second scene creating sidebands for
> effect if 
> you like
> 
> Hope you like it,
> 
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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> 
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>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
>  
> 
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> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
>  

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Re: Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-08 by pharoahscully <peter.scullion@talk21.com>

Hello Jerry,

Havent checked out the patch yet, but I've just listened to the Mpeg 
example...

What can I say? You complete genius, this is exactly what I needed!!!

The precise sound in my head more or less, I'll examine your sound & 
personalise it to my own taste...

Big Thanks, Big Thanks

(BTW you dont know any good resources on the web on Playing 
techniques do you?)

Thanks once again

P


> Hi Peter:
> 
> I am a big fan of double reed instruments (nagesuram, shawm, oboe, 
> duduk) too. I grew up listening to the nagasuram and I have loved 
> Djivan Gasparyan's duduk timbres with Peter Gabriel. What a 
> concidence! I did a monophonic piece recently with a patch to test 
> the capabilities of the AN1X with that kind of material.  
> 
> Here's how to get the tune and the patch. Go to Yahoo briefcase and 
> sign in as rimskyrimsky with a password of 11231123.
> 
> http://briefcase.yahoo.com/
> 
> The piece is called Monologue and is in the Monologue folder. The 
> patch is called EarthHorn and is in the My Documents folder. 
> 
> The patch isn't a replica of any of these instruments ...  but the 
> idea was to force the synth to be expressive in the tradition of 
> monophonic instruments such these. When writing the piece, I did 
> migrate from the double reed to some distinctly electronic timbres 
in 
> order to maintain interest. Although the AN1X is not a reed model, 
I 
> found that it could quite evocative. The only area where I found it 
a 
> little lacking was in the attack (chiff). If I was to do a strictly 
> emulative patch, I would dedicate one scene to getting the attack 
> right. Something I didn't do in this case, since I wanted the 
> electronic timbres.
> 
> More about the patch:
> 
> - Inverted envelope on main patch, hold out the note and use 
> aftertouch to sweeten the tone
> - pitch bending (+-3) on the X ribbon
> - pitch bending (+-12) on the pitch wheel
> - accented attack (pitch envelope) on the Z ribbon
> - You can brighten the sound to taste with knob # 5
> - You can morph to the second scene creating sidebands for effect 
if 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> you like
> 
> Hope you like it,
> 
> Jerry

Re: [AN1x] Re: Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-09 by Warren Herron

Hello,
	Just listened to Monologue - very nice work!  I've had some interest in
this area, though I have never really done anything to date.  However,
you might want to take a look at this page:

http://users.skynet.be/P-ART/PARADISE/SCULPTUR/ESQ.htm

It's about microtuning using an Ensoniq ESQ model... If you really want
to do this, they can be had pretty cheap and they are great sounding
units.  Really amazing sounds... I've seen ESQ's for around $150... One
of the least appreciated synths on the market IMO... Leads that easily
rival the AN in some areas, though different obviously and no onboard
effects, but hey it's old... But, it has analog filters, Curtis I
think... Very nice indeed... And like the AN it can sound like a whole
host of other gear if properly programed... Something to think about... 
Hope you find it useful... Maybe you can extrapolate the info for the
AN...

				Best,
						Warren ^=-=^

"pharoahscully " wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> 
> Hello Jerry,
> 
> Havent checked out the patch yet, but I've just listened to the Mpeg
> example...
> 
> What can I say? You complete genius, this is exactly what I needed!!!
> 
> The precise sound in my head more or less, I'll examine your sound &
> personalise it to my own taste...
> 
> Big Thanks, Big Thanks
> 
> (BTW you dont know any good resources on the web on Playing
> techniques do you?)
> 
> Thanks once again
> 
> P
> 
> > Hi Peter:
> >
> > I am a big fan of double reed instruments (nagesuram, shawm, oboe,
> > duduk) too. I grew up listening to the nagasuram and I have loved
> > Djivan Gasparyan's duduk timbres with Peter Gabriel. What a
> > concidence! I did a monophonic piece recently with a patch to test
> > the capabilities of the AN1X with that kind of material.
> >
> > Here's how to get the tune and the patch. Go to Yahoo briefcase and
> > sign in as rimskyrimsky with a password of 11231123.
> >
> > http://briefcase.yahoo.com/
> >
> > The piece is called Monologue and is in the Monologue folder. The
> > patch is called EarthHorn and is in the My Documents folder.
> >
> > The patch isn't a replica of any of these instruments ...  but the
> > idea was to force the synth to be expressive in the tradition of
> > monophonic instruments such these. When writing the piece, I did
> > migrate from the double reed to some distinctly electronic timbres
> in
> > order to maintain interest. Although the AN1X is not a reed model,
> I
> > found that it could quite evocative. The only area where I found it
> a
> > little lacking was in the attack (chiff). If I was to do a strictly
> > emulative patch, I would dedicate one scene to getting the attack
> > right. Something I didn't do in this case, since I wanted the
> > electronic timbres.
> >
> > More about the patch:
> >
> > - Inverted envelope on main patch, hold out the note and use
> > aftertouch to sweeten the tone
> > - pitch bending (+-3) on the X ribbon
> > - pitch bending (+-12) on the pitch wheel
> > - accented attack (pitch envelope) on the Z ribbon
> > - You can brighten the sound to taste with knob # 5
> > - You can morph to the second scene creating sidebands for effect
> if
> > you like
> >
> > Hope you like it,
> >
> > Jerry
> 
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>   Subscribe:    AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   Unsubscribe:  AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>   List owner:   AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
> 
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

[AN1x] Re: Middle Easten Flava's

2003-02-10 by Jerry Aiyathurai <tuskerfort@hotmail.com>

Peter, John and Warren:

Thanks for the interesting comments. They are very encouraging. 
Peter, I am glad that works for you. The AN1X is particularly good at 
getting interesting nasal/or slightly discordant but evocative  
sustained sounds. You can pitch an oscillator really high in the 
overtone series and detune it to give the character you want, and 
since you have the oscillator edge parameter, it gives you precise 
control over how much of that overtone's overtones you have in the 
patch. 

Peter, by technique I am going to assume you mean control of the 
sound, rather than keyboard technique, since that is covered by all 
the piano resources. Interestingly I picked up february's Electronic 
Musician which is something I never do. They have an excellent 
article by Pat Martirano on the subject of emulative playing. But 
what the article is really good for, is ideas about using the 
controllers (ribbons, aftertouch, etc) to create evocative 
expressions with the synth. It's only in the last page or so that he 
talks about this, but he packs in a number of ideas. I am going to 
enjoy trying them out. 

<soapbox on> You know us synth players are using about 10% of the 
resources available to us in terms of expression. Despite all the 
possibilities we typically only use portamento, filter sweeps and 
tremolo. I think that's going to change, as the modulation matrixes 
have become common over the last 3 years and people are beginning to 
explore the possibilities. The weak link is now the lack of time. To 
internalize and play a certain modulation routing scheme takes a lot 
of practice and one has to commit a certain amount of time to 
become "natural" with a particular set of expressions. Ideally, we 
should get to the point where the muscles are obeying the 
subconscious, just like on a violin or piano. Of course, the synth 
manufacturers give us some new toy every year and we tend to give up 
on embracing the technique of any one toy. :) <soapbox off>

Warren, I am into micro tuning as well. It's neat to find people with 
similar interests. I have enjoyed a lot of Wendy Carlos' music, 
including a jewel of a CD called Beauty in the Beast, which employs 
micro tuning heavily. I'll take some time to read the resources you 
have. I have a Roland JV synth, and a guy called Benjamin Tubb put 
together the settings for the main tuning schemes. Occasionally, I'll 
visit his web site and try something new out. I agree that being "out 
of tune" is very important to being evocative. It's hard to find 
those features combined with a good programming architecture like the 
AN1X unless you pony up for a Kurzweil. Or maybe I should try out an 
ESQ. Does it have polyphonic aftertouch by any chance?

Cheers,

Jerry

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