The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Help,

I'm using my AN1X  with Cubase, and as I'm changing the delay time I'm getting a message flashing on the AN's screen saying sysex error or soemthing, does anybody know how to cure this?

Is it Cubase or a fauklt with the AN?

Thanks in advance

P


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Pete's Account" <peter.scullion@t...> wrote:
> Help,
> 
> I'm using my AN1X  with Cubase, and as I'm changing the 
delay time I'm getting a message flashing on the AN's screen 
saying sysex error or soemthing, does anybody know how to 
cure this?
> 

That's odd indeed...I've seen the error message you describe but 
not under those conditions. I assume you mean Delay Depth 
(MIDI CC #094), correct? Since this is a standard MIDI CC - not 
SysEx you wouldn't think the AN1x would 'choke' like that.

> Is it Cubase or a fauklt with the AN?
> 

I suspect it is neither Cubase or the AN1x but rather your MIDI 
Interface. What make model are you using - and can you tell us 
more about your system - Mac or PC, oeratings system level, etc. 
If you're using one of those game port type MIDI Interfaces I'll tell 
you right now to get a real MIDI Interface from the likes of 
Emagic, Steinberg, MIDIMAN or MOTU and save yourself the 
headache ;-)


> Thanks in advance
> 
> P

regards,

Jon

No it happens on all the other effects parameters except depth!  It is the
strangest thing as its never happened before.  even stranger as I change the
delay time the messge flashs up, and the AN seems to be sending a stream of
Sysex making the sequencer slow down/sound break up.

Bizare as its never ever happened before,  it is connected using a budget
MPU401 joystick adapter thing which has never given me any trouble before
accept, actually you have to make sure you switch the AN of before PC as it
'zaps' the AN which sends up a 'signal not valid message' or something?

Are there any decent (& cheapish) USB midi I/O's worth getting I have midi
on my Soundcard (SW1k) but use that to connect my sampler, (need midi I/O to
use editor otherwise would put te sampler as midi through) I've also heard
that USB Interfaces can be problematic with AN edit/bZone etc.

I do hope my beloved synths not buggered, maybe it will be fine tommorow!

________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
   Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 15:55:45 -0000

   From: "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@...>
Subject: Re: Sysex Trouble

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Pete's Account" <peter.scullion@t...> wrote:
> Help,
>
> I'm using my AN1X  with Cubase, and as I'm changing the
delay time I'm getting a message flashing on the AN's screen
saying sysex error or soemthing, does anybody know how to
cure this?
>

That's odd indeed...I've seen the error message you describe but
not under those conditions. I assume you mean Delay Depth
(MIDI CC #094), correct? Since this is a standard MIDI CC - not
SysEx you wouldn't think the AN1x would 'choke' like that.

> Is it Cubase or a fauklt with the AN?
>

I suspect it is neither Cubase or the AN1x but rather your MIDI
Interface. What make model are you using - and can you tell us
more about your system - Mac or PC, oeratings system level, etc.
If you're using one of those game port type MIDI Interfaces I'll tell
you right now to get a real MIDI Interface from the likes of
Emagic, Steinberg, MIDIMAN or MOTU and save yourself the
headache ;-)


> Thanks in advance
>
> P

regards,

Jon



________________________________________________________________________

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Pete's Account" <peter.scullion@t...> wrote:
> No it happens on all the other effects parameters except depth!  
It is the
> strangest thing as its never happened before.  even stranger 
as I change the
> delay time the messge flashs up, and the AN seems to be 
sending a stream of
> Sysex making the sequencer slow down/sound break up.
> 

Ooooh, duh! I get it now... :-P

You are literally changing the Delay Time parameter while 
recording aren't you? Okay. Then the AN1x is indeed transmitting 
a SysEx stream to Cubase - and Cubase is dutifully recording 
the information and playing it back. If you go into Event List edit 
mode for that track in Cubase you'll see the SysEx stream. I 
created a simple AN1x and Drum Loop sequence in Logic Audio 
and recorded changes to the Dly time parameters to confirm this 
behavior.

Here's the deal - - SysEx messages for ANY synth are 
considerably larger in size then MIDI CC events consequently 
they eat up *much more* bandwidth. When transmitting SysEx 
streams to any synth it stands a much better chance of success 
at slower tempos - the AN1x chokes easily on SysEx streams to 
begin with so it's no surprise to me that your AN1x is being 
overrun. (This is why I find it preferable to use MDI CC, RPNs, 
and NRPNs over SysEx.)

I'm not certain why you feel it necessary to alter the Delay Time 
settings in real time but no doubt you have a reason. I would 
offer two suggestions as an alternative towards achieving 
similar results: 1) Stick with altering thr Delay Depth setting as 
mentioned  - you can create wicked dub type effects - or - 2) Use 
the TempoDly instead which will allow you to sync to MIDI Clock - 
the delay time will then follow tempo changes in your Sequence 
(I assume this is what you are after?)


I'll repeat myslef - IMO the performance you experience with your 
set-up will benefit immeasurably with a proper, multi-port MIDI 
Interface. Since you're already using Cubase I'd suggest you 
scope out their current product line. Unless I'm mistaken, their 
MIDIEX 8 model offesr some type of proprietary time stamp 
technology similar to those offered by Emagic (AMT) and MOTU 
(MTS). This would be beneficial in a kit with multiple hardware 
devices. Otherwsie, you'll probably get by just fine with their little 
2x2 model...



> Bizare as its never ever happened before,  it is connected 
using a budget
> MPU401 joystick adapter thing which has never given me any 
trouble before
> accept, actually you have to make sure you switch the AN of 
before PC as it
> 'zaps' the AN which sends up a 'signal not valid message' or 
something?
> 
> Are there any decent (& cheapish) USB midi I/O's worth getting 
I have midi
> on my Soundcard (SW1k) but use that to connect my sampler, 
(need midi I/O to
> use editor otherwise would put te sampler as midi through) I've 
also heard
> that USB Interfaces can be problematic with AN edit/bZone etc.
> 
> I do hope my beloved synths not buggered, maybe it will be 
fine tommorow!


regards,

Jon

Jon,

thanks for the reply but I'm not actually trying to record the data I'm just
trying to edit the sound, It's not just happening on delay time but other FX
parameters, its as if its kind of in a loop, like I'm changing the
parameter, it's being sent to Cubase, then being sent back to the AN! Why
has it decided to start now

>
> Message: 1
>    Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 19:14:40 -0000
>    From: "jondl_2000" <jondl_2000@...>
> Subject: Re: Sysex Trouble
>
> --- In AN1x-list@y..., "Pete's Account" <peter.scullion@t...> wrote:
> > No it happens on all the other effects parameters except depth!
> It is the
> > strangest thing as its never happened before.  even stranger
> as I change the
> > delay time the messge flashs up, and the AN seems to be
> sending a stream of
> > Sysex making the sequencer slow down/sound break up.
> >
>
> Ooooh, duh! I get it now... :-P
>
> You are literally changing the Delay Time parameter while
> recording aren't you? Okay. Then the AN1x is indeed transmitting
> a SysEx stream to Cubase - and Cubase is dutifully recording
> the information and playing it back. If you go into Event List edit
> mode for that track in Cubase you'll see the SysEx stream. I
> created a simple AN1x and Drum Loop sequence in Logic Audio
> and recorded changes to the Dly time parameters to confirm this
> behavior.
>
> Here's the deal - - SysEx messages for ANY synth are
> considerably larger in size then MIDI CC events consequently
> they eat up *much more* bandwidth. When transmitting SysEx
> streams to any synth it stands a much better chance of success
> at slower tempos - the AN1x chokes easily on SysEx streams to
> begin with so it's no surprise to me that your AN1x is being
> overrun. (This is why I find it preferable to use MDI CC, RPNs,
> and NRPNs over SysEx.)
>
> I'm not certain why you feel it necessary to alter the Delay Time
> settings in real time but no doubt you have a reason. I would
> offer two suggestions as an alternative towards achieving
> similar results: 1) Stick with altering thr Delay Depth setting as
> mentioned  - you can create wicked dub type effects - or - 2) Use
> the TempoDly instead which will allow you to sync to MIDI Clock -
> the delay time will then follow tempo changes in your Sequence
> (I assume this is what you are after?)
>
>
> I'll repeat myslef - IMO the performance you experience with your
> set-up will benefit immeasurably with a proper, multi-port MIDI
> Interface. Since you're already using Cubase I'd suggest you
> scope out their current product line. Unless I'm mistaken, their
> MIDIEX 8 model offesr some type of proprietary time stamp
> technology similar to those offered by Emagic (AMT) and MOTU
> (MTS). This would be beneficial in a kit with multiple hardware
> devices. Otherwsie, you'll probably get by just fine with their little
> 2x2 model...
>
>
>
> > Bizare as its never ever happened before,  it is connected
> using a budget
> > MPU401 joystick adapter thing which has never given me any
> trouble before
> > accept, actually you have to make sure you switch the AN of
> before PC as it
> > 'zaps' the AN which sends up a 'signal not valid message' or
> something?
> >
> > Are there any decent (& cheapish) USB midi I/O's worth getting
> I have midi
> > on my Soundcard (SW1k) but use that to connect my sampler,
> (need midi I/O to
> > use editor otherwise would put te sampler as midi through) I've
> also heard
> > that USB Interfaces can be problematic with AN edit/bZone etc.
> >
> > I do hope my beloved synths not buggered, maybe it will be
> fine tommorow!
>
>
> regards,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Pete's Account" <peter.scullion@t...> wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> thanks for the reply but I'm not actually trying to record the data 
I'm just
> trying to edit the sound, It's not just happening on delay time 
but other FX
> parameters, its as if its kind of in a loop, like I'm changing the
> parameter, it's being sent to Cubase, then being sent back to 
the AN! Why
> has it decided to start now

I'm sorry but I'm at a loss %-) If Cubase is not in Record mode 
then I can't explain the behavior you describe - I've certainly not 
experienced, or heard tell of, anything like it?!

The only other suggestion I have is to check the Preferences 
setting in Cubase to determine whether SysEx data is being 
filtered or not. I'm not a regular user of Cubase but unless I'm 
mistaken the default setting for SysEx Filtering is ON, i.e., SysEx 
data will NOT be recorded. Did you or someone with access to 
your set-up recently alter this setting?

regards,

Jon