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Reply from Yamaha

Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-07 by Truth

Hi everyone,

I just thought I'd update you on the "missing notes" problem that the 
AN-200 has ( look back at my original post for more info ). I have 
recived a reply from Yamaha which says :

Greetings Richard,

At this time, there are no plans for an update to address this issue. 
Keep checking back with use for the possibility. If you have any 
further questions, please call us at (714) 522-9000 or email us. 
Thank You

Regards,

JR

--------

What good is that to me and every other AN200 owner out there ? Why 
did'nt Yamaha get it right in the first place ? Did'nt anyone notice 
when the unit was in prototype form that notes would vanish ? What 
about the people who did the factory presets....are they all deaf or 
what ? As you can tell, I am not happy at this reply - I had hoped 
that they WOULD be working on an update, but I guess now I know why 
the machine is falling in price so soon after it hit the shops.

Re: Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-07 by jondl_2000@yahoo.com

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Truth" <riso972@y...> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I just thought I'd update you on the "missing notes" problem that 
the 
> AN-200 has ( look back at my original post for more info ). I have 
> recived a reply from Yamaha which says :
> 
> Greetings Richard,
> 
> At this time, there are no plans for an update to address this 
issue. 
> Keep checking back with use for the possibility. If you have any 
> further questions, please call us at (714) 522-9000 or email us. 
> Thank You
> 
> Regards,
> 
> JR

Yes, this must indeed be disappointing news for AN200 users. :-(

I'd like to encourage the current - and potential - owners of the 
AN200 to reiterate your concerns to YCA as JR has. And here's why:

Keep in mind that it took Yamaha a couple of product generations to 
correct the abnormally slow response time of the SCSI interface used 
on the A3000, EX5/7, A4000/A5000, SU700, and I don't what else. It's 
only been addressed on the relatively recent RS7000 and MOTIF series -
 a four year lag time :-( Now that I review it - that sentence is 
somewhat misleading because, AFAIK, Yamaha offers no retrofit for the 
older products. The new SCSI interface is available only on the 
current product line :-/

I promise you this widely publicized defect was a major deterrent to 
my decision to purchase a Yamaha sampler (I went with an Ensoniq.) 
Clearly they have *substantial* experience in regards to SCSI 
interfaces - their CDRWs were widely popular and the one I own 
(external 8X4X24 SCSI) functions without incident. Go figure?!

The point is: you have to let Yamaha know how significant this 'bug' 
is to you and whether it deters you from making a purchase. And 
there's no reason you can't make your point in a calm and rational 
manner. There's no need to exercise any of the bafoonish (sp?) 
behavior witnessed so frequently on the Internet.

regards - and good luck!

Jon

Re: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-07 by Bastiaan van de Werk

*sigh* I've seen crappy service and support SOOO many times before...products that don't do what's promised, updates that don't come etc.... product development being dropped in favour of new stuff to shove down the consumers throat... I guess the next time I buy something I'll wait a bit before i jump in...the times i did just that (bd50xg an1x and novation nova) I was not dissapointed....on other occasions I have been disapointed in some way (terratec EWS 64 XL, Yamaha a4000 sampler, which is a very good sampler nevertheless etc.etc.etc.)

I still hope you can make the an200 work for you, since they do sound lovely...



...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Truth 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:24 PM
  Subject: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha


  Hi everyone,

  I just thought I'd update you on the "missing notes" problem that the 
  AN-200 has ( look back at my original post for more info ). I have 
  recived a reply from Yamaha which says :

  Greetings Richard,

  At this time, there are no plans for an update to address this issue. 
  Keep checking back with use for the possibility. If you have any 
  further questions, please call us at (714) 522-9000 or email us. 
  Thank You

  Regards,

  JR

  --------

  What good is that to me and every other AN200 owner out there ? Why 
  did'nt Yamaha get it right in the first place ? Did'nt anyone notice 
  when the unit was in prototype form that notes would vanish ? What 
  about the people who did the factory presets....are they all deaf or 
  what ? As you can tell, I am not happy at this reply - I had hoped 
  that they WOULD be working on an update, but I guess now I know why 
  the machine is falling in price so soon after it hit the shops.



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Re: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-07 by Bastiaan van de Werk

esi is fine...i had the 4000 too which i traded for the yamaha a4000...which has some strange faults and is not being supported by yamaha at all...(it got dropped within a year or so)

the esi is top...many people use is (depeche mode etc.)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: a90 
  To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2001 12:00 AM
  Subject: Odp: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha


  Bastiaan,
  recently not enough i bought an200 (i just felt i had to - it sounds so
  nice0 i bought esi4000. What's wrong with esi4000. I am asking because i am
  really novice. Just bought them becouse i couldn't buy any expencivier stuff
  and wannted to off a computer screen.

  Piotr





  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Bastiaan van de Werk <bazziman@...>
  To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
  Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 11:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha


  > *sigh* I've seen crappy service and support SOOO many times
  before...products that don't do what's promised, updates that don't come
  etc.... product development being dropped in favour of new stuff to shove
  down the consumers throat... I guess the next time I buy something I'll wait
  a bit before i jump in...the times i did just that (bd50xg an1x and novation
  nova) I was not dissapointed....on other occasions I have been disapointed
  in some way (terratec EWS 64 XL, Yamaha a4000 sampler, which is a very good
  sampler nevertheless etc.etc.etc.)
  >
  > I still hope you can make the an200 work for you, since they do sound
  lovely...
  >
  >
  >
  > ...
  >   ----- Original Message -----
  >   From: Truth
  >   To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
  >   Sent: Friday, September 07, 2001 10:24 PM
  >   Subject: [AN1x-list] Reply from Yamaha
  >
  >
  >   Hi everyone,
  >
  >   I just thought I'd update you on the "missing notes" problem that the
  >   AN-200 has ( look back at my original post for more info ). I have
  >   recived a reply from Yamaha which says :
  >
  >   Greetings Richard,
  >
  >   At this time, there are no plans for an update to address this issue.
  >   Keep checking back with use for the possibility. If you have any
  >   further questions, please call us at (714) 522-9000 or email us.
  >   Thank You
  >
  >   Regards,
  >
  >   JR
  >
  >   --------
  >
  >   What good is that to me and every other AN200 owner out there ? Why
  >   did'nt Yamaha get it right in the first place ? Did'nt anyone notice
  >   when the unit was in prototype form that notes would vanish ? What
  >   about the people who did the factory presets....are they all deaf or
  >   what ? As you can tell, I am not happy at this reply - I had hoped
  >   that they WOULD be working on an update, but I guess now I know why
  >   the machine is falling in price so soon after it hit the shops.
  >
  >
  >
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  >
  >
  >   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
  >
  >
  >
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >
  >
  >
  > Community email addresses:
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  >


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Re: Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-08 by jondl_2000@yahoo.com

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Bastiaan van de Werk" <bazziman@h...> wrote:
> *sigh* I've seen crappy service and support SOOO many times before...products that don't do what's promised, updates that don't come etc.... product development being dropped in favour of new stuff to shove down the consumers throat... I guess the next time I buy something I'll wait a bit before i jump in...the times i did just that (bd50xg an1x and novation nova) I was not dissapointed....on other occasions I have been disapointed in some way (terratec EWS 64 XL, Yamaha a4000 sampler, which is a very good sampler nevertheless etc.etc.etc.)
> 
> I still hope you can make the an200 work for you, since they do sound lovely...
> 
> 

I'd like to take one last opportunity to comment on the AN200 
situation. Since I've owned my An1x I've had contact with YCA on three 
seperate occasions and they've come through for me each time. 
Consequently I've spent more money on Yamaha peripherals for my set-up.

1) They readily acknowledged the AN1x 'popping & clicking' defect and 
affected the hardware repair while under warranty - at no additional 
cost to me (shipping costs were covered by my incompetant, and now out 
of business, ex-dealer.)

2) When I inquired of YCA on the availability of an OS update (v1.04) 
for the AN1x they promptly shipped out the EPROM and answered all of my 
follow up questions.

3) When I pestered (there's no other word for it) YCA for the actual 
Herz values of the LFO1/2 Speed parameter (1-256) they came through 
after a couple of months and provided the Excel spreadsheet which was 
uploaded to the Files section of our mailing list.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to paint a perfect picture here but 
I *do sincerely believe* these large companies need every possible 
opportunity to improve. I hnoestly don't think anybody at Yamaha WANTS 
to provides poor service but sometimes it takes a few tries to get 
things right. Sometimes many, many tries, right? Riiiight ;-) haha ha

Many of us can relate to the scenario's as described by Bastiaan - 
they're all too frequent and all too common. That's why we have to try 
and 'help' the Yamaha's improve. Too not do so is akin to shooting 
ourselves in the foot (and Tom will then make more "JR" for Dallas 
jokes ;-)

This turned into a 'Rant' didn't it? Ooops. Sorry for that...apologies 
to the list.

Hope everybody have a nice weekend.

Jon

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-08 by Bruce Wahler

All,

Too add a little to what Jon said -- OK, maybe to flog a dead horse, but 
I've been known to do that on occasion:

>I'd like to take one last opportunity to comment on the AN200
>situation. Since I've owned my An1x I've had contact with YCA on three
>seperate occasions and they've come through for me each time.
>Consequently I've spent more money on Yamaha peripherals for my set-up.
>
>{snip}
>
>Don't get me wrong - I'm not trying to paint a perfect picture here but
>I *do sincerely believe* these large companies need every possible
>opportunity to improve. I hnoestly don't think anybody at Yamaha WANTS
>to provides poor service but sometimes it takes a few tries to get
>things right. Sometimes many, many tries, right? Riiiight ;-) haha ha
>
>Many of us can relate to the scenario's as described by Bastiaan -
>they're all too frequent and all too common. That's why we have to try
>and 'help' the Yamaha's improve. Too not do so is akin to shooting
>ourselves in the foot (and Tom will then make more "JR" for Dallas
>jokes ;-)

Big companies, music or otherwise, play the percentages on support 
issues.  I've worked for four different PC companies in my career, and 
here's what I saw:

A firmware update can easily cost $20-50K (USD) in engineering time, test 
group time, and distribution.   It also increases the need for support 
teams to handle user questions before, during, and after the update.  It 
opens the product to the risk that fixing your problem might make a new 
problem for someone else.  And finally, finding a fix takes the development 
and test teams away from other tasks, like making new products so the 
company can stay in business another year!  All this potential expense (and 
risk) is for a product that has already been sold, so while companies 
recognize that fixing the bug affects customer satisfaction, it's often 
difficult to turn that statement into a hard number.  The question always 
comes down to a) how severe is the problem?  b) how many did we sell ?  c) 
how likely is a user to see the problem?  The perceived need for a fix is 
found by "multiplying" a) x b) x c).

Item b) is completely objective, but items a) and c) are often difficult to 
quantize.  Since no one likes to spend money needlessly, there is a 
tendency to downplay these two subjective factors when making a decision.

What you can do as a customer is make Yamaha aware that c) you DO see the 
problem, on a regular basis; and a) the problem affects the use of your 
product.  (The headers are deliberately out of order, in order to map to 
the questions asked in the first paragraph.)  The more people who respond, 
the   larger the a) and c) factors become.

And, as Jon said, do it rationally and calmly -- no flames.  Just as in any 
other person-to-person interaction, you'll get more results by stating your 
case in a positive manner.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions™
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389  voice
978.964.0547 fax
bruce@...

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: Reply from Yamaha

2001-09-08 by Peter Korsten

From: <jondl_2000@...>

> Keep in mind that it took Yamaha a couple of product generations to
> correct the abnormally slow response time of the SCSI interface used
> on the A3000, EX5/7, A4000/A5000, SU700, and I don't what else. It's
> only been addressed on the relatively recent RS7000 and MOTIF series -
>  a four year lag time :-( Now that I review it - that sentence is
> somewhat misleading because, AFAIK, Yamaha offers no retrofit for the
> older products. The new SCSI interface is available only on the
> current product line :-/

I don't know the story about the other Yamaha products, but the story on the
EX series SCSI interface is that it was thrown in more or less as an
afterthought.

The EX5 has two CPU's and two DSP's. One CPU controls the DSP's, the other
one controls the ports. There's a pipe between the two CPU's. The memory is
connected to the DSP's only.

Consequently, data from the SCSI bus has to travel to the first CPU, then to
the second CPU, then to the DSP's and from there to the memory. This is not
the most elegant and efficient design imaginable, but that's the way it is.

Keep in mind that developing a product like the EX5 takes six or seven
years. Things don't move as fast as in the computer business.

On the whole, I find Yamaha employees very friendly and co-operative. I was
truly surprised by the assistance I was offered in my recent exchange with a
Japanese representative.

- Peter

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