The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Has anyone created with a decent piano (acoustic rather than 
electric) sound on the AN1x? Hardly what the machine was designed 
for, I know, but maybe some programming wizard has come up with a 
useable sound.....?

Cheers,
Martin

Martin,

>Has anyone created with a decent piano (acoustic rather than
>electric) sound on the AN1x? Hardly what the machine was designed
>for, I know, but maybe some programming wizard has come up with a
>useable sound.....?

This question seems to come up every few months on this list.  I won't say, 
"It can't be done," as "can't" is clearly in the eye of the beholder, but ...

Analog and analog-modeling synthesizers use simple waveforms (saw, 
triangle, pulse, etc.) and filtering to create complex sounds.  The 
resulting approximation either succeeds or fails based on the level to 
which the original and copy waveforms can be made to look alike:  In the 
case of say, a Trumpet, the raw waveform is rather sawtooth-like, so a 
decent copy can be obtained by filtering a sawtooth wave using analog 
methods.  Piano is another story, however.

Commercial piano products using simple waveforms from companies like RMI, 
Univox, and even Roland and Yamaha were all the rage in the 
mid-to-late-70's.  It soon became obvious, however, that the results were 
less than stellar.  The waveform of a piano is rather complex, and 
resembles none of the base elements of classic analog synthesis.  No 
"reasonable" number of standard analog waveforms summed together can do it 
justice, IMHO.  It might be possible to create a decent piano copy by using 
multiple analog/modeling synths -- one to simulate the hammer attack, 
another for the basic tone, a third to add the bright sound of a hard 
strike -- but why bother, when sampling keyboards have been tweaked to the 
point where they are both cost-effective, and more than adequate for many 
piano needs?

A similar attempt occurred when FM synthesis came on the scene, with 
similar results.  Again, with enough synthesizer horsepower, acceptable 
(but far from perfect) results could be found, but a single instrument was 
unlikely to have enough elements to simulate the complete sound -- or if it 
did, as in the case of the Yamaha DX1, the amount of programming necessary 
to arrive at the desired end was prohibitive for all but the most tenacious 
(and financially sound) programmers.

There are many wonderful sounds that can be coaxed out of the AN1x; 
acoustic piano just isn't really one of them.

Just my $0.02US ...

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions™
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389  voice
978.964.0547 fax
bruce@...

--- In AN1x-list@y..., ginger@i... wrote:
> Has anyone created with a decent piano (acoustic rather than 
> electric) sound on the AN1x? Hardly what the machine was designed 
> for, I know, but maybe some programming wizard has come up with a 
> useable sound.....?
> 
> Cheers,
> Martin

I doubt an acoustic piano emulation from the AN1x is doable but I 
could be wrong. On a related topic, I have to say the control knobs 
on the preset 'Glassy' are terrific for getting extra mileage out of 
an unassuming electric piano voice.

Jon

From: <ginger@...>

> Has anyone created with a decent piano (acoustic rather than
> electric) sound on the AN1x? Hardly what the machine was designed
> for, I know, but maybe some programming wizard has come up with a
> useable sound.....?

It can't be done. :)

I agree with everything Bruce mentioned. I've found that, when he replies,
that more or less settles it for the rest of the list.

The best emulation of a piano would probably be physical modelling, but
before you've figured out the actual model, you're a long way down the road.
For instance, hitting one string with the hammer influences the strings next
to it. There's the resonance of the case itself, and who knows how many
other parameters that influence the overall sound.

Today's sampling synthesisers offer acoustic piano sounds that range from
lousy to quite good (Kurzweil springs to mind), but it's still not the real
thing. I've played on a Yamaha C3 grand piano, and although it's not a first
league product (meaning that it's not a Boessendorfer), it leaves any synth
in the dust, if you ask me.

The piano is arguably the most difficult instrument to model, so with an
AN1x you won't get further than a half-way decent electric/electronic piano.
Nice sound, nonetheless, but not the Real Thing.

- Peter

> I doubt an acoustic piano emulation from the AN1x is doable but I 
> could be wrong. On a related topic, I have to say the control knobs 
> on the preset 'Glassy' are terrific for getting extra mileage out 
of 
> an unassuming electric piano voice.

Yes, I enjoy tweaking away with that one myself.

Thanks for the input people.

Martin