The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

----- Original Message -----
Fra: Bruce Wahler <bruce@...>
Til: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sendt: 12. mars 2001 04:41
Emne: Re: [AN1x-list] Enlightening exercise: Strawberry fields synth sound?


> Jim,

Bruce,

It is very apparent to me that you know your stuff! Thanks for (again) taking the time to help out. I read on before replying and see that other list members were equally delighted to read how one programs, and plans on a sound.

It IS enlighetening!
>
> Boy, you could have found an easier first attempt! :^) This is a
> deceptive sound, appearing easy to duplicate, but actually possessing a lot
> of subtleties.
>
> The sound on the intro to "Strawberry Fields" is a Mellotron Mark II, using
> the flute recording that was part of the standard tape set. What makes
> this simulation difficult is the fact that the Mellotron is a sort of
> sampling synthesizer, so you are trying to simulate a synth with another
> synth. Also, the Mellotron had its own dominant timbre which permeated
> every sound, from violins to choirs to flutes. And finally, the Mellotron
> was not a chromatically-tuned instrument; the recordings were
> just-intonated, mostly in the key of A major. In any other key, they tend
> to sound a little off key on one or more of the notes. The following is
> the way I would approach the sound on ANY synth, AN1x or otherwise --
>
> I would start off by trying to simulate a flute sound, which is mostly a
> sine wave, except for the initial attack, which has a lot of high harmonic
> content, both tonal and atonal in nature.

This is excellent, because I love the mellotron sound, and my second favorite type
sound for a keyboard is flute. I was going ot ask how to make a flute sound, but here I got the best of both worlds!

>Start with a 50% duty pulse with
> the Edge at about 115, and set the FEG to a fast attack, fast decay, and a
> relatively low sustain level -- low enough to filter out most of the
> harmonics, but not so low as to mute the sound. Set the AEG to a similar
> shape, but set the sustain very high, maybe 118 or so. After some tweaking
> by ear, you should have a flute timbre that sounds good for mellow solos --
> think soft jazz, not Jethro Tull. You may find that adding a little noise
> to the mix improves the illusion, but use it sparingly. One VCO may be
> enough to create the sound; if you want to use the second one, set it to
> the same waveform, make it an octave above the first, about 25% of the
> original volume, with only a very slight fine pitch detune.
>
> Now, you need to "Mellotron-ize" the sound. First, as you already noted,
> the attack on the Mellotron was never very quick, owing to the nature of
> the tape system used in the instrument. Back the attack of both the FEG
> and AEG until you have a more calliope-like sound. If you want a good
> example -- Strawberry Fields is not the best one I can think of -- use the
> Dance of the Puppets section of King Crimson's "The Court of the Crimson
> King," which is actually the same sound on the same instrument. After
> that, you need to EQ the result to give it that hollow sound that the
> Mellotron was famous for -- add a little boost at 125Hz and 3.8kHz, and
> drop the 1kHz a little. The effect you're looking for is that of an old
> movie soundtrack. Then add a little slow flange to the mix, and a little
> PMOD using the same LFO speed, to simulate the wow and flutter that the
> tape drive caused. Use the pitch modulation sparingly, as the detuning was
> not all that noticeable.
>
> Finally, a little (mis-)tuning simulation is probably in order. Use one of
> the matrix controls to add a little fine pitch decrease based on key
> tracking, and if the end result causes the whole patch to go flat,
> compensate with the fine pitch controls on the VCOs.

This is great! I'll try it out (I already printed this out for my notebook).

If one also wanted to make a flute sound, more of the Jethro Tull sound you mentioned, could you use the noise module..would it ever give a hint of that sound of the person blowing into the flute that Ian Anderson did ?

>
>
> Regards,
>
> -BW

Thanks once again Bruce. This really is helping.

Jim

>
> --
> Bruce Wahler
> Design Consultant
> Ashby Solutions"
> www.ashbysolutions.com
> CloneWheel Support Group moderator
> 978.386.7389 voice
> 978.776.0096 fax
> bruce@...
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
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>
>
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>
>
>

>If one also wanted to make a flute sound, more of the Jethro Tull sound
>you mentioned, could you use the noise module..would it ever give a hint
>of that sound of the person blowing into the flute that Ian Anderson did ?

----- Original Message -----
Fra: Blades <redbrickdream@...>
Til: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
Sendt: 14. mars 2001 14:44
Emne: Re: [AN1x-list] Enlightening exercise: Strawberry fields synth sound?


> My opinion:
>
> This is less OFF TOPIC than most of the posts to me. I think one of the
> best things about any of these synth lists is when people share how they
> have gotten a certain sound out of their beast. Posting new sounds as well.
> There are some great capabilities in this thing that I will certainly never
> get out of it. Those that I get, you may miss, and vice-versa...but a
> collective of people can do amazing things.
>

Thanks for saying so! I cannot imagine this being off topic..

I was thinking...If I get the strawberry fields CD, and if I can get close enough to the sound that it is worthwhile (no point if the thing is way off) I might be able to post some MP3 of it (not here!! on my server) and the original...a bit of it anyway.

Again, that link I posted...I have been reading and rereading it, and staring at the flow chart til I can draw it without looking...there are a few passages that I still am not 100% clear on, and one that I think is a typo. I plan on posting small excerpts or paraphrasing and asking here also if someone can clarify. It might be a while though as my free time is limited and also I am working hard on a retracking of a song I am working on.

Jim

> I say take the challenge (if you want the challenge (practice) or the
> mellotron sound). If anyone else has something that they are trying to
> make...post it and see what all these folks can come up with.
>
> Maybe I'm totally off base suggesting this...If I'm OFF TOPIC, please let me
> know.
>
> Blades
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J Acker" <jacker@...>
> To: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 1:25 AM
> Subject: SV: [AN1x-list] Enlightening exercise: Strawberry fields synth
> sound?
>
>
> > Bruce, (and list)
> >
> > Well, I followed your directions and worked on making the mellotron
> sound last night. I thought I'd just write this before I go to work today...
> >
> > I followed your mail as much as I could, and it definitely got me in
> the ball park. I have a couple of questions I can post later about some of
> the paramters. I found a few more that seemed to help.
> >
> > I got a couple of sounds that I think are close but need a little more
> tweaking. Upon getting close, it occured to me 1) I don't have "Strawberry
> Fields" on CD anywhere, and 2) I used to have "Court of the Crimson King"
> but only on cassette..so I really don't have that either. (is it beginning
> to dawn on you, that you aren't dealing with a genius here ? :-) so I have
> to go out and buy at least one of them to see how close I
> > can get.
> >
> > Again, your instructions were really great.. I would really like to
> see how much better I can get it and then post the relavent settings either
> here or privately if the rest of the list finds it OT (though I don't again
> see why they would..but in case I misunderstand the purpose of this list).
> >
> > If you are up for it, it'd be great to see if you had any more
> comments on the patch.I am not hooked up to PC with my AN1x, so I would have
> to post it in text, is that okay?
> >
> > Anyway, THANKS!
> >
> > Also I saw no mention of it since I posted but that site I posted to the
> list, that (even though it says it is EX-5 its' contents are a seminar on
> the AN1x given by someone from Yamaha) seminar html is really, really great.
> Along with your explanations, and that seminar I am finally getting a little
> more insight into this synth.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > Fra: Bruce Wahler <bruce@...>
> > Til: <AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sendt: 12. mars 2001 04:41
> > Emne: Re: [AN1x-list] Enlightening exercise: Strawberry fields synth
> sound?
> >
> >
> > > Jim,
> > >
> > > >I thought the old synth the Beatles used on the intro to "Strawberry
> > > >fields" is interesting, how would you go about getting that sound? (was
> it
> > > >a mellotron, or even older synth?..I think I've seen pictures of it)
> > > >
> > > >I would love to hear the thought process you would go through to get in
> > > >the ballpark and how you would plan to get that sound.
> > >
> > > Boy, you could have found an easier first attempt! :^) This is a
> > > deceptive sound, appearing easy to duplicate, but actually possessing a
> lot
> > > of subtleties.
> > >
> > > The sound on the intro to "Strawberry Fields" is a Mellotron Mark II,
> using
> > > the flute recording that was part of the standard tape set. What makes
> > > this simulation difficult is the fact that the Mellotron is a sort of
> > > sampling synthesizer, so you are trying to simulate a synth with another
> > > synth. Also, the Mellotron had its own dominant timbre which permeated
> > > every sound, from violins to choirs to flutes. And finally, the
> Mellotron
> > > was not a chromatically-tuned instrument; the recordings were
> > > just-intonated, mostly in the key of A major. In any other key, they
> tend
> > > to sound a little off key on one or more of the notes. The following is
> > > the way I would approach the sound on ANY synth, AN1x or otherwise --
> > >
> > > I would start off by trying to simulate a flute sound, which is mostly a
> > > sine wave, except for the initial attack, which has a lot of high
> harmonic
> > > content, both tonal and atonal in nature. Start with a 50% duty pulse
> with
> > > the Edge at about 115, and set the FEG to a fast attack, fast decay, and
> a
> > > relatively low sustain level -- low enough to filter out most of the
> > > harmonics, but not so low as to mute the sound. Set the AEG to a
> similar
> > > shape, but set the sustain very high, maybe 118 or so. After some
> tweaking
> > > by ear, you should have a flute timbre that sounds good for mellow
> solos --
> > > think soft jazz, not Jethro Tull. You may find that adding a little
> noise
> > > to the mix improves the illusion, but use it sparingly. One VCO may be
> > > enough to create the sound; if you want to use the second one, set it to
> > > the same waveform, make it an octave above the first, about 25% of the
> > > original volume, with only a very slight fine pitch detune.
> > >
> > > Now, you need to "Mellotron-ize" the sound. First, as you already
> noted,
> > > the attack on the Mellotron was never very quick, owing to the nature of
> > > the tape system used in the instrument. Back the attack of both the FEG
> > > and AEG until you have a more calliope-like sound. If you want a good
> > > example -- Strawberry Fields is not the best one I can think of -- use
> the
> > > Dance of the Puppets section of King Crimson's "The Court of the Crimson
> > > King," which is actually the same sound on the same instrument. After
> > > that, you need to EQ the result to give it that hollow sound that the
> > > Mellotron was famous for -- add a little boost at 125Hz and 3.8kHz, and
> > > drop the 1kHz a little. The effect you're looking for is that of an old
> > > movie soundtrack. Then add a little slow flange to the mix, and a
> little
> > > PMOD using the same LFO speed, to simulate the wow and flutter that the
> > > tape drive caused. Use the pitch modulation sparingly, as the detuning
> was
> > > not all that noticeable.
> > >
> > > Finally, a little (mis-)tuning simulation is probably in order. Use one
> of
> > > the matrix controls to add a little fine pitch decrease based on key
> > > tracking, and if the end result causes the whole patch to go flat,
> > > compensate with the fine pitch controls on the VCOs.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > -BW
> > >
> > > --
> > > Bruce Wahler
> > > Design Consultant
> > > Ashby Solutions"
> > > www.ashbysolutions.com
> > > CloneWheel Support Group moderator
> > > 978.386.7389 voice
> > > 978.776.0096 fax
> > > bruce@...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Community email addresses:
> > > Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > List owner: AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
> > >
> > >
> > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Community email addresses:
> > Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> > Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > List owner: AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Shortcut URL to this page:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: AN1x-list-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AN1x-list
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>