The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
wrong? Thanks.


Jason

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--- In AN1x-list@y..., Jason Martino <timeshard@u...> wrote:

> Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
> and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
> right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
> plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
> setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
> wrong? Thanks.
>
>

Sounds as though the polarity of the pedal is reversed and it's not
compatible with the AN1x. Otherwise it should work from the get go. Is
it a Yamaha brand pedal or one marketed as compatible?

BTW - You do not need to make changes to the Utility Setup for the
Sustain pedal to work - unless you want to transmit a MIDI CC other
than #064 to another MIDI keyboard/module. The only other thought I
have is to check the Ctrl Matrix (under Source) and see if CC #064 is
routed to some less obvious function.

HTH

Jon

From: "Jason Martino" <timeshard@...>

> Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
> and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
> right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
> plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
> setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
> wrong? Thanks.

Yamaha, for reasons best known to them, have a different polarity than the
other manufacturers. What this means is that they say no when the rest says
yes, and yes when the rest says no (whether the pedal has been pressed).

I have two Yamaha pedals on my Yamaha EX5 (it being my main keyboard) and
they're working well. I would suggest to (a) see if there's a polarity
switch on your pedal, or (b) see if you can change it, modify it, or have it
modified or (c) get a Yamaha pedal.

- Peter

Most standard pedals have a switch on it so you can switch the polarity. By
the way, GEM uses the same polarity, so Yamaha doesn't use a other polarity
than all other manufacturers ;-)

Harm

-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Korsten [mailto:peterk@...]
Sent: Monday, February 19 2001. 21:52
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Sustain pedal


From: "Jason Martino" <timeshard@...>

> Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
> and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
> right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
> plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
> setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
> wrong? Thanks.

Yamaha, for reasons best known to them, have a different polarity than the
other manufacturers. What this means is that they say no when the rest says
yes, and yes when the rest says no (whether the pedal has been pressed).

I have two Yamaha pedals on my Yamaha EX5 (it being my main keyboard) and
they're working well. I would suggest to (a) see if there's a polarity
switch on your pedal, or (b) see if you can change it, modify it, or have it
modified or (c) get a Yamaha pedal.

- Peter



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I've never seen a pedal with a polarity switch built into it. In my
experience this feature is typically enabled in software on *some*
keyboards - the AN1x not being one of them. If memory serves, my old
Korg keyboards (T3 and Wavestation) had this feature. It's the kind
of feature which, IMO, should be taken for granted that it's included
but I guess the manufacturers don't all see it that way.

regards,
Jon

--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Lammers, H.W.M." <h.w.m.lammers@s...> wrote:
> Most standard pedals have a switch on it so you can switch the
polarity. By
> the way, GEM uses the same polarity, so Yamaha doesn't use a other
polarity
> than all other manufacturers ;-)
>
> Harm
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Korsten [mailto:peterk@i...]
> Sent: Monday, February 19 2001. 21:52
> To: AN1x-list@y...
> Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Sustain pedal
>
>
> From: "Jason Martino" <timeshard@u...>
>
> > Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
> > and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
> > right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
> > plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
> > setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
> > wrong? Thanks.
>
> Yamaha, for reasons best known to them, have a different polarity
than the
> other manufacturers. What this means is that they say no when the
rest says
> yes, and yes when the rest says no (whether the pedal has been
pressed).
>
> I have two Yamaha pedals on my Yamaha EX5 (it being my main
keyboard) and
> they're working well. I would suggest to (a) see if there's a
polarity
> switch on your pedal, or (b) see if you can change it, modify it,
or have it
> modified or (c) get a Yamaha pedal.
>
> - Peter
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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Roland use the same polarity as Yammie as well,
In article <BD45D855D714D311A7150008C7EBBA363AF811@...
e.nl>, Lammers, H.W.M. <h.w.m.lammers@...> writes

>Most standard pedals have a switch on it so you can switch the polarity. By
>the way, GEM uses the same polarity, so Yamaha doesn't use a other polarity
>than all other manufacturers ;-)
>
>Harm
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Peter Korsten [mailto:peterk@...]
>Sent: Monday, February 19 2001. 21:52
>To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Sustain pedal
>
>
>From: "Jason Martino" <timeshard@...>
>
>> Hey guys, I just got a sustain pedal for my An1x
>> and for some reason I can't seem to get it set up
>> right. I have it connected to the Foot Switch
>> plug in the back, and I know I have it correctly
>> setup under the utility setup. What am I doing
>> wrong? Thanks.
>
>Yamaha, for reasons best known to them, have a different polarity than the
>other manufacturers. What this means is that they say no when the rest says
>yes, and yes when the rest says no (whether the pedal has been pressed).
>
>I have two Yamaha pedals on my Yamaha EX5 (it being my main keyboard) and
>they're working well. I would suggest to (a) see if there's a polarity
>switch on your pedal, or (b) see if you can change it, modify it, or have it
>modified or (c) get a Yamaha pedal.
>
>- Peter
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
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See ya,

Reggie

Jon,

>I've never seen a pedal with a polarity switch built into it.

The Fatar VFP-1/25 sustain pedal has the polarity switch, as does the Boss
FS-5U.

Also, someone else mentioned (Reggie?) that the Roland and Yamaha pedals
are the same, but I believe that they are opposite of each other. (I could
be wrong; I've changed the connection on my pair of Roland pedals at least
four times!)

Many of the sustain pedals have the ability to be modified to either N.O.
(normally open, a.k.a. Fatar) or N.C. (normally closed, a.k.a. Yamaha)
operation internally. The Roland pedal is especially easy to change, as it
has a little PC board in it with three connections -- N.O., Common, and
N.C. -- making the change almost trivial, if one can solder.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

Yep, it was me, I phoned a shop today, I want 2 pedals, a sustain pedal
and a Wah type pedal. They said the one they stock is for Yammie,
Roland and another make.

Anyway, I think I get to test them first so if not working they will go
back.

So, can anyone explain how to set up the 2 types of foot thing I will
buy tomorrow?

In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010220132431.00a0f560@...>,
Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> writes

>Jon,
>
>>I've never seen a pedal with a polarity switch built into it.
>
>The Fatar VFP-1/25 sustain pedal has the polarity switch, as does the Boss
>FS-5U.
>
>Also, someone else mentioned (Reggie?) that the Roland and Yamaha pedals
>are the same, but I believe that they are opposite of each other. (I could
>be wrong; I've changed the connection on my pair of Roland pedals at least
>four times!)
>
>Many of the sustain pedals have the ability to be modified to either N.O.
>(normally open, a.k.a. Fatar) or N.C. (normally closed, a.k.a. Yamaha)
>operation internally. The Roland pedal is especially easy to change, as it
>has a little PC board in it with three connections -- N.O., Common, and
>N.C. -- making the change almost trivial, if one can solder.
>
>Regards,
>
>-BW
>
>--
>Bruce Wahler
>Design Consultant
>Ashby Solutions"
>www.ashbysolutions.com
>CloneWheel Support Group moderator
>978.386.7389 voice
>978.776.0096 fax
>bruce@...
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
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See ya,

Reggie

--- In AN1x-list@y..., Bruce Wahler <bruce@a...> wrote:

>
> Many of the sustain pedals have the ability to be modified to

either N.O.

> (normally open, a.k.a. Fatar) or N.C. (normally closed, a.k.a.

Yamaha)

> operation internally. The Roland pedal is especially easy to

change, as it

> has a little PC board in it with three connections -- N.O., Common,

and

> N.C. -- making the change almost trivial, if one can solder.
>

And there you have it - if one can solder ;-)

Many thanks Bruce.

Jon

Reggie,

>So, can anyone explain how to set up the 2 types of foot thing I will
>buy tomorrow?

It depends what you want to do with them. Typically, you'll put the "wah"
type pedal into the Foot Volume jack, and the sustain pedal into the Foot
Switch jack. (You could also use the Foot Controller jack for the wah
pedal.) Then go to the CTRL functions using the buttons and rotary switch
on the AN1x, or AN1xEdit, and set the FV (or FC) controller to the MIDI CC#
that you want. Usually, volume is CC#7, expression is CC#11, and CC#6 is
the data slider. Then set the FS controller in the same manner; sustain is
CC#64, portamento is CC#65, soft pedal is CC#66, sostenudo is CC#67. An
example is on pg96-97 in the manual.

Actually, you don't need to follow conventions if you're setting the device
at the other end of the chain to the same CC#. The only caveat is that if
you set the CC# to something that has a name on the display, rather than
'------', it's going to affect the AN1x directly -- this might be good or
bad, depending on the setup.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

Well, I have an sw1k, So I want to use the sustain for some of the
instruments and I want to use the Wah type pedal for FX send level or
whatever. I can run one from my Roland controller keyboard and the Wah
type I will run Via my peavey midi controller, that way I can assign it
to anything that takes any midi message, including sysex. I could even
control the DSPF with the Wah type pedal if I got bored enough!

Thanks for mentioning the Foot volume pedal, they guy in the shop wasn't
exactly clear about it!

I have never used either type of pedal before, but if anyone has any
other ways of using one let me know. (Yeah, yeah, I know foot up, foot
down, nothing to it!)

Would using it for after touch be viable?

Thanks again,


In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010220162201.00a047b0@...>,
Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> writes

>Reggie,
>
>>So, can anyone explain how to set up the 2 types of foot thing I will
>>buy tomorrow?
>
>It depends what you want to do with them. Typically, you'll put the "wah"
>type pedal into the Foot Volume jack, and the sustain pedal into the Foot
>Switch jack. (You could also use the Foot Controller jack for the wah
>pedal.) Then go to the CTRL functions using the buttons and rotary switch
>on the AN1x, or AN1xEdit, and set the FV (or FC) controller to the MIDI CC#
>that you want. Usually, volume is CC#7, expression is CC#11, and CC#6 is
>the data slider. Then set the FS controller in the same manner; sustain is
>CC#64, portamento is CC#65, soft pedal is CC#66, sostenudo is CC#67. An
>example is on pg96-97 in the manual.
>
>Actually, you don't need to follow conventions if you're setting the device
>at the other end of the chain to the same CC#. The only caveat is that if
>you set the CC# to something that has a name on the display, rather than
>'------', it's going to affect the AN1x directly -- this might be good or
>bad, depending on the setup.
>
>Regards,
>
>-BW
>
>--
>Bruce Wahler
>Design Consultant
>Ashby Solutions"
>www.ashbysolutions.com
>CloneWheel Support Group moderator
>978.386.7389 voice
>978.776.0096 fax
>bruce@...
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
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See ya,

Reggie

Reggie,

>Would using it for after touch be viable?

You can set the pedal to mimic aftertouch, but bear in mind that the
regular aftertouch will still operate. Maybe this is what you want, but if
you're doing it because you don't like the feel of aftertouch, you'll still
have to deal with it.

One more thing: There are TWO different standards for a "wah" type pedal
with a stereo (TRS) cable, Yamaha's way, and the rest of the world. (OK, a
few KORG devices like the new CX-3 use the Yamaha convention, too, but
that's probably because Yamaha now owns 30% of KORG.) If you want to use a
Yamaha pedal like the FC-7 with a Roland keyboard, you have to cut the plug
off, and put a new one on, reversing the 'tip' and 'ring' connections. For
those who care --

Yamaha Others

Tip Power Wiper
Ring Wiper Power
Sleeve Ground Ground


Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

Ok, what happens if you don't, just wondering, not being picky!
I have checked the manual for the Peavey and it is auto sensing on power
up, So no cutting my tip or soldering my ring! The peavey is has 2
holes for CV/F.switch as well if the roland won't take either.

The roland keyboard doesn't have aftertouch, I don't really know exactly
how aftertouch works, If it's on a per note basis then a foot pedal of
any type isn't really going to help me there I think!


In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010220172421.00a0a040@...>,
Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> writes

>Reggie,
>
>>Would using it for after touch be viable?
>
>You can set the pedal to mimic aftertouch, but bear in mind that the
>regular aftertouch will still operate. Maybe this is what you want, but if
>you're doing it because you don't like the feel of aftertouch, you'll still
>have to deal with it.
>
>One more thing: There are TWO different standards for a "wah" type pedal
>with a stereo (TRS) cable, Yamaha's way, and the rest of the world. (OK, a
>few KORG devices like the new CX-3 use the Yamaha convention, too, but
>that's probably because Yamaha now owns 30% of KORG.) If you want to use a
>Yamaha pedal like the FC-7 with a Roland keyboard, you have to cut the plug
>off, and put a new one on, reversing the 'tip' and 'ring' connections. For
>those who care --
>
> Yamaha Others
>
>Tip Power Wiper
>Ring Wiper Power
>Sleeve Ground Ground
>
>
>Regards,
>
>-BW
>
>--
>Bruce Wahler
>Design Consultant
>Ashby Solutions"
>www.ashbysolutions.com
>CloneWheel Support Group moderator
>978.386.7389 voice
>978.776.0096 fax
>bruce@...
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
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See ya,

Reggie

Reggie,

>Ok, what happens if you don't, just wondering, not being picky!

If you plug a Yamaha pedal into a Roland (or vice versa) the pedal will act
very oddly: 70-80% of the pedal travel will do nothing, and the last
20-30% will provide all of the changes. I think it's the top 20-30% on the
Yama --> Rol way, and the bottom 20-30% in the other case; I might have it
backwards. At any rate, if the pedal doesn't seem to work, or works
strangely, it's probably a polarity issue.

>The roland keyboard doesn't have aftertouch, I don't really know exactly
>how aftertouch works, If it's on a per note basis then a foot pedal of
>any type isn't really going to help me there I think!

There are two types of aftertouch -- per key, also called "note"
aftertouch, and per keyboard, also called "channel" aftertouch or "channel
pressure". The per-key method is difficult (expensive) to implement, so
most keyboards only use channel aftertouch. The AN1x only transmits the
channel method.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

Thanks BW, Polarity won't be an issue, The peavey will pick it up on
power up. Thanks for the aftertouch thing, good to know that I can use
it on the PLG AN.


In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010220182907.00a03cc0@...>,
Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> writes

>Reggie,
>
>>Ok, what happens if you don't, just wondering, not being picky!
>
>If you plug a Yamaha pedal into a Roland (or vice versa) the pedal will act
>very oddly: 70-80% of the pedal travel will do nothing, and the last
>20-30% will provide all of the changes. I think it's the top 20-30% on the
>Yama --> Rol way, and the bottom 20-30% in the other case; I might have it
>backwards. At any rate, if the pedal doesn't seem to work, or works
>strangely, it's probably a polarity issue.
>
>>The roland keyboard doesn't have aftertouch, I don't really know exactly
>>how aftertouch works, If it's on a per note basis then a foot pedal of
>>any type isn't really going to help me there I think!
>
>There are two types of aftertouch -- per key, also called "note"
>aftertouch, and per keyboard, also called "channel" aftertouch or "channel
>pressure". The per-key method is difficult (expensive) to implement, so
>most keyboards only use channel aftertouch. The AN1x only transmits the
>channel method.
>
>Regards,
>
>-BW
>
>--
>Bruce Wahler
>Design Consultant
>Ashby Solutions"
>www.ashbysolutions.com
>CloneWheel Support Group moderator
>978.386.7389 voice
>978.776.0096 fax
>bruce@...
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
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>
>

See ya,

Reggie

Going back to this I made a mistake, the pedal I got has a 22k pot on it
and the peavey takes a 10k pot, this may explain why it aint working
properly!! Oh well, Back to the shop tomorrow.....




In article <5.0.2.1.2.20010220182907.00a03cc0@...>,
Bruce Wahler <bruce@...> writes

>Reggie,
>
>>Ok, what happens if you don't, just wondering, not being picky!
>
>If you plug a Yamaha pedal into a Roland (or vice versa) the pedal will act
>very oddly: 70-80% of the pedal travel will do nothing, and the last
>20-30% will provide all of the changes. I think it's the top 20-30% on the
>Yama --> Rol way, and the bottom 20-30% in the other case; I might have it
>backwards. At any rate, if the pedal doesn't seem to work, or works
>strangely, it's probably a polarity issue.
>
>>The roland keyboard doesn't have aftertouch, I don't really know exactly
>>how aftertouch works, If it's on a per note basis then a foot pedal of
>>any type isn't really going to help me there I think!
>
>There are two types of aftertouch -- per key, also called "note"
>aftertouch, and per keyboard, also called "channel" aftertouch or "channel
>pressure". The per-key method is difficult (expensive) to implement, so
>most keyboards only use channel aftertouch. The AN1x only transmits the
>channel method.
>
>Regards,
>
>-BW
>
>--
>Bruce Wahler
>Design Consultant
>Ashby Solutions"
>www.ashbysolutions.com
>CloneWheel Support Group moderator
>978.386.7389 voice
>978.776.0096 fax
>bruce@...
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
> Post message: AN1x-list@onelist.com
> Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@onelist.com
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>
>

See ya,

Reggie

Reggie,

>Going back to this I made a mistake, the pedal I got has a 22k pot on it
>and the peavey takes a 10k pot, this may explain why it aint working
>properly!! Oh well, Back to the shop tomorrow.....

The difference between a 10K pot and a 22K pot, from a working perspective,
shouldn't be all that great. I've used 10K and 50K pedals pretty much
interchangeably -- the only result of a mismatched pedal is usually a
slightly non-linear action; i.e, the top end will plateau at 90%, or the
bottom end will crash in the last 10%, something like that.

More likely, you're fooling the auto-sense circuit in the Peavey -- or it's
the pinout issue that I mentioned. Actually, as an engineer, I can't
understand how an auto-sense can work on a "wah" (expression) pedal. On a
sustain pedal, it's easy: Assume that the pedal is not depressed at
startup, and it either looks open or closed at that time; then if it's the
wrong way, compensate. An expression pedal is more complicated: How can
the software determine if the pedal is all the way down, all the way up, or
somewhere in between? I'd be willing to bet that the auto-sense only works
for sustain pedals.

Peavey keyboards are made by Fatar -- at least, the key action is -- and
Fatar used the opposite convention as Yamaha.

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Design Consultant
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

Hi all,

I am new to this group. I was wondering whether anyone could give me some ideas on a problem I have run into. I have an old sequential circuits sustain pedal that originally came with a prophet T8 I used to have. it has always worked well as a sustain pedal for all my other midi keyboards. I recently tried this on my An1x and it seems inverted. when I don't push the pedal, I get sustain -- when I push the pedal the sustain releases. Any ideas?? Does anyone know where i can get a compatible pedal if necessary? Any help would be appreciated.


Robert

Hello Robert !
on most Yamaha synths including AN1x the pedal switch must be *normally
closed* . Others are often normally open, of course, including
Sequential... Normally closed means : you open the contact when you push
the pedal, that's why your Sequential pedal is "inverted".
I have some very cheap "universal" pedals with both possibilities,
selectable by a slider under the pedal, sold for keyboards and/or guitar
amps . I'm sure that you will find their sisters in any music shop.
Don't search the Yamaha pedal, unless you want a piano pedal look and
feel : they are expensive and rather hard to find. Obviously universal
pedals will fit any of your keyboards, fine, is'nt ?
Cheers
J.F.

jadestarbaby a écrit :

>
> Hi all,
>
> I am new to this group. I was wondering whether anyone could give me
> some ideas on a problem I have run into. I have an old sequential
> circuits sustain pedal that originally came with a prophet T8 I used
> to have. it has always worked well as a sustain pedal for all my other
> midi keyboards. I recently tried this on my An1x and it seems
> inverted. when I don't push the pedal, I get sustain -- when I push
> the pedal the sustain releases. Any ideas?? Does anyone know where i
> can get a compatible pedal if necessary? Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Robert
>
>

JR... Thanks for the advice. I will look for such a pedal at my local music store.


Robert

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Jeff <jf.serviere@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Robert !
> on most Yamaha synths including AN1x the pedal switch must be *normally
> closed* . Others are often normally open, of course, including
> Sequential... Normally closed means : you open the contact when you push
> the pedal, that's why your Sequential pedal is "inverted".
> I have some very cheap "universal" pedals with both possibilities,
> selectable by a slider under the pedal, sold for keyboards and/or guitar
> amps . I'm sure that you will find their sisters in any music shop.
> Don't search the Yamaha pedal, unless you want a piano pedal look and
> feel : they are expensive and rather hard to find. Obviously universal
> pedals will fit any of your keyboards, fine, is'nt ?
> Cheers
> J.F.
>
> jadestarbaby a écrit :
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I am new to this group. I was wondering whether anyone could give me
> > some ideas on a problem I have run into. I have an old sequential
> > circuits sustain pedal that originally came with a prophet T8 I used
> > to have. it has always worked well as a sustain pedal for all my other
> > midi keyboards. I recently tried this on my An1x and it seems
> > inverted. when I don't push the pedal, I get sustain -- when I push
> > the pedal the sustain releases. Any ideas?? Does anyone know where i
> > can get a compatible pedal if necessary? Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
>