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MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-12 by C Stone

Current best advice seems to be that USB is not necessarily the best connnection
for MIDI

I have been told that when ranked according to potential timing accuracy,
connection types for external MIDI interfaces are ordered as follows:

1. Serial - 'best', apparently
2. Parallel
3. USB

So I'm gonna get a Midiman BiPort while there's still some left on the shelves

But has anyone anything else to add to this thread?

CS




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x-list] MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-12 by Reggie

I saw this post on and I remember somewhere selling serial port midi
cables, Is it easy to install/use does anyone know?


In article <3A87C329.8F69CD6B@...>, C Stone
<chris.stone@...> writes
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>Current best advice seems to be that USB is not necessarily the best
>connnection
>for MIDI
>
>I have been told that when ranked according to potential timing accuracy,
>connection types for external MIDI interfaces are ordered as follows:
>
>1. Serial - 'best', apparently
>2. Parallel
>3. USB
>
>So I'm gonna get a Midiman BiPort while there's still some left on the shelves
>
>But has anyone anything else to add to this thread?
>
>CS
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
> Post message: AN1x-list@onelist.com
> Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: AN1x-list-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/AN1x-list
>

--
Reggie

Re: [AN1x-list] MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-13 by Phil

Hi All,

I'm using a Roland S-MPU64 USB 4in/4out MIDI Interface on G4 Mac without any
timing concerns.

Phil



In article <3A87C329.8F69CD6B@...>, C Stone
<chris.stone@...> writes
>
>Current best advice seems to be that USB is not necessarily the best
>connnection
>for MIDI
>
>I have been told that when ranked according to potential timing accuracy,
>connection types for external MIDI interfaces are ordered as follows:
>
>1. Serial - 'best', apparently
>2. Parallel
>3. USB
>
>So I'm gonna get a Midiman BiPort while there's still some left on the
shelves
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>But has anyone anything else to add to this thread?
>
>CS

Re: [AN1x-list] MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-13 by James Ellemore

respect goes to chris stone for being a fellow sunderland supporting an1x owner.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message -----
From: Reggie
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 5:28 AM
Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?


I saw this post on and I remember somewhere selling serial port midi
cables, Is it easy to install/use does anyone know?


In article <3A87C329.8F69CD6B@...>, C Stone
<chris.stone@...> writes
>
>Current best advice seems to be that USB is not necessarily the best
>connnection
>for MIDI
>
>I have been told that when ranked according to potential timing accuracy,
>connection types for external MIDI interfaces are ordered as follows:
>
>1. Serial - 'best', apparently
>2. Parallel
>3. USB
>
>So I'm gonna get a Midiman BiPort while there's still some left on the shelves
>
>But has anyone anything else to add to this thread?
>
>CS
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Community email addresses:
> Post message: AN1x-list@onelist.com
> Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: AN1x-list-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/AN1x-list
>

--
Reggie

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-15 by dkblade@bigpond.net.au

Hey there,

I really don't see how the interface between the PC and the MIDI port
could make a difference. USB supports over 100Mbps transfer rate,
compared to 112Kbps of serial and 5Mbps of parallel. Er...greater
bandwith = higher timing resolutions possible = more accurate. But
it's besides the point. The timing is determined by either your
sequencing software or your master midi clock, not by interface.

The only reason not to get USB midi port is possible
incompatibilities with software, but mine works great :)

Cheers,

Paul Kabzinski



Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In AN1x-list@y..., C Stone <chris.stone@s...> wrote:
>
> Current best advice seems to be that USB is not necessarily the
best connnection
> for MIDI
>
> I have been told that when ranked according to potential timing
accuracy,
> connection types for external MIDI interfaces are ordered as
follows:
>
> 1. Serial - 'best', apparently
> 2. Parallel
> 3. USB
>
> So I'm gonna get a Midiman BiPort while there's still some left on
the shelves
>
> But has anyone anything else to add to this thread?
>
> CS
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [AN1x-list] Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-15 by Gary Gregson

Paul,

My understanding is that its not a case of bandwidth (MIDI only needs
31.25KBits/s)...its a case of the underlying protocol used to deliver the
data. Both Serial and Parallel interfaces have handshake protocols
(implemented in hardware). This means if you try to overrun the receiving
device it can hold off further transmission until its ready.

Many USB MIDI devices appear to operate on a 'fire and forget' scheme...they
expect the receiver always to be in a state where it is ready to accept
data. However, in the case of USB MIDI there is a step transition of
bandwidth. ie. at some point you have to go from the 100Mbps of USB, to the
31.25KBits/s of MIDI. Unless the interface designers have done some clever
stuff, this can cause big problems.

Typically I have found most USB devices work fine for simple MIDI
playback/record. However when you start putting heavy demands on
them...particularly involving large amounts of sysex....then problems occur.
The net result is often that data is lost due to receiver overrun (or other
glitches).

The An1x uses big sysex packets for transferring patch data and is very
sensitive to the packet timing. Consequently it tends to show up problems in
USB interfaces:-(

Perhaps if people with working USB interfaces (that can reliably bulk dump
AN1x data to/form the computer) would care to post a message...then we could
weed out the good ones from the bad.

Regards

Gary
Email:
gary@...
http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

-----Original Message-----
From: dkblade@... [mailto:dkblade@...]
Sent: 15 February 2001 10:18
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?


Hey there,

I really don't see how the interface between the PC and the MIDI port
could make a difference. USB supports over 100Mbps transfer rate,
compared to 112Kbps of serial and 5Mbps of parallel. Er...greater
bandwith = higher timing resolutions possible = more accurate. But
it's besides the point. The timing is determined by either your
sequencing software or your master midi clock, not by interface.

The only reason not to get USB midi port is possible
incompatibilities with software, but mine works great :)

Cheers,

Paul Kabzinski

Re: [AN1x-list] Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-15 by RayMaxer

Umm , currently my Roland SMPU64 (4*4) - USB seems to be working fully fine with
AN-1x (and AN-1x Editor too).
Win ME , VIA chipset ASUS board , PIII ... all the Windows Updates installed
(important).
Ray.

Gary Gregson wrote:

> Paul,
>
> My understanding is that its not a case of bandwidth (MIDI only needs
> 31.25KBits/s)...its a case of the underlying protocol used to deliver the
> data. Both Serial and Parallel interfaces have handshake protocols
> (implemented in hardware). This means if you try to overrun the receiving
> device it can hold off further transmission until its ready.
>
> Many USB MIDI devices appear to operate on a 'fire and forget' scheme...they
> expect the receiver always to be in a state where it is ready to accept
> data. However, in the case of USB MIDI there is a step transition of
> bandwidth. ie. at some point you have to go from the 100Mbps of USB, to the
> 31.25KBits/s of MIDI. Unless the interface designers have done some clever
> stuff, this can cause big problems.
>
> Typically I have found most USB devices work fine for simple MIDI
> playback/record. However when you start putting heavy demands on
> them...particularly involving large amounts of sysex....then problems occur.
> The net result is often that data is lost due to receiver overrun (or other
> glitches).
>
> The An1x uses big sysex packets for transferring patch data and is very
> sensitive to the packet timing. Consequently it tends to show up problems in
> USB interfaces:-(
>
> Perhaps if people with working USB interfaces (that can reliably bulk dump
> AN1x data to/form the computer) would care to post a message...then we could
> weed out the good ones from the bad.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
> Email:
> gary@...
> http://www.yme.co.uk/yme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dkblade@... [mailto:dkblade@...]
> Sent: 15 February 2001 10:18
> To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?
>
> Hey there,
>
> I really don't see how the interface between the PC and the MIDI port
> could make a difference. USB supports over 100Mbps transfer rate,
> compared to 112Kbps of serial and 5Mbps of parallel. Er...greater
> bandwith = higher timing resolutions possible = more accurate. But
> it's besides the point. The timing is determined by either your
> sequencing software or your master midi clock, not by interface.
>
> The only reason not to get USB midi port is possible
> incompatibilities with software, but mine works great :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul Kabzinski
>
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: AN1x-list@onelist.com
> Subscribe: AN1x-list-subscribe@onelist.com
> Unsubscribe: AN1x-list-unsubscribe@onelist.com
> List owner: AN1x-list-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
> http://www.onelist.com/community/AN1x-list

--
http://www.mp3.com/raymaxer - full tracks and CD !
http://www.ampcast.com/raymaxer - short snippets of the tracks !

Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-16 by jondl@jdlx-musique.com

For those who are interested in further reading - there was a good
article titled 'A Musician's Guide to USB' by Scott Wilkinson in the
"Desktop Music Production Guide 2000" published by Electronic Musician
about a year ago. If you can find a copy of this article you'll be able
to read about the differing methods USB can use to transmit data and
see why Gary's explanation is accurate - and parallesl so many of our
experiences.

You might also have noticed Win users appear to have much better luck
with USB + SysEx then Mac users - I have no scientific proof this is
only my general impression. If time permits, I create some more SysEx
dumps via USB - I still some old ones from the MIDIMAN 2x2 too.

Jon

Show quoted textHide quoted text
--- In AN1x-list@y..., "Gary Gregson" <gary@y...> wrote:
> Paul,
>
> My understanding is that its not a case of bandwidth (MIDI only needs
> 31.25KBits/s)...its a case of the underlying protocol used to deliver the
> data. Both Serial and Parallel interfaces have handshake protocols
> (implemented in hardware). This means if you try to overrun the receiving
> device it can hold off further transmission until its ready.
>
> Many USB MIDI devices appear to operate on a 'fire and forget' scheme...they
> expect the receiver always to be in a state where it is ready to accept
> data. However, in the case of USB MIDI there is a step transition of
> bandwidth. ie. at some point you have to go from the 100Mbps of USB, to the
> 31.25KBits/s of MIDI. Unless the interface designers have done some clever
> stuff, this can cause big problems.
>
> Typically I have found most USB devices work fine for simple MIDI
> playback/record. However when you start putting heavy demands on
> them...particularly involving large amounts of sysex....then problems occur.
> The net result is often that data is lost due to receiver overrun (or other
> glitches).
>
> The An1x uses big sysex packets for transferring patch data and is very
> sensitive to the packet timing. Consequently it tends to show up problems in
> USB interfaces:-(
>
> Perhaps if people with working USB interfaces (that can reliably bulk dump
> AN1x data to/form the computer) would care to post a message...then we could
> weed out the good ones from the bad.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
> Email:
> gary@y...
> http://www.yme.co.uk/yme
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dkblade@b... [mailto:dkblade@b...]
> Sent: 15 February 2001 10:18
> To: AN1x-list@y...
> Subject: [AN1x-list] Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?
>
>
> Hey there,
>
> I really don't see how the interface between the PC and the MIDI port
> could make a difference. USB supports over 100Mbps transfer rate,
> compared to 112Kbps of serial and 5Mbps of parallel. Er...greater
> bandwith = higher timing resolutions possible = more accurate. But
> it's besides the point. The timing is determined by either your
> sequencing software or your master midi clock, not by interface.
>
> The only reason not to get USB midi port is possible
> incompatibilities with software, but mine works great :)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul Kabzinski

Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-16 by James Weisbin

I'm sure you are correct about the advantages and disadvantages of the
different protocols, but using USB with MOTU's MTP AV interface (along with
FreeMIDI and Digital Performer) allows me to take advantage of the "midi
time stamping" technology that MOTU has developed, and the reduction in midi
slop is audible. I have a Mac (beige G3/466 with Orange Micro USB/Firewire
PCI card and mostly use SoundDiver 3.02 to access all of my synths and sound
modules. I have no problem with 2-way communication with the AN1X using SD -
just AN1XEdit doesn't allow me to receive data from the synth. I would
prefer to use AN1XEdit because the interface is better, but I can't unless I
switch to serial comms, which I don't want to do. Please don't take this as
a criticism - I have the highest respect for software gurus such as
yourself, and I know it isn't easy to address every combination of hardware
out there. Best regards --- Jim Weisbin
----------------------------
Jim Weisbin
jim@...
http://www.savagetranscendental.com

"Gary Gregson" <gary@...> wrote:

Show quoted textHide quoted text
> My understanding is that its not a case of bandwidth (MIDI only needs
> 31.25KBits/s)...its a case of the underlying protocol used to deliver the
> data. Both Serial and Parallel interfaces have handshake protocols
> (implemented in hardware). This means if you try to overrun the receiving
> device it can hold off further transmission until its ready.
>
> Many USB MIDI devices appear to operate on a 'fire and forget' scheme...they
> expect the receiver always to be in a state where it is ready to accept
> data. However, in the case of USB MIDI there is a step transition of
> bandwidth. ie. at some point you have to go from the 100Mbps of USB, to the
> 31.25KBits/s of MIDI. Unless the interface designers have done some clever
> stuff, this can cause big problems.
>
> Typically I have found most USB devices work fine for simple MIDI
> playback/record. However when you start putting heavy demands on
> them...particularly involving large amounts of sysex....then problems occur.
> The net result is often that data is lost due to receiver overrun (or other
> glitches).
>
> The An1x uses big sysex packets for transferring patch data and is very
> sensitive to the packet timing. Consequently it tends to show up problems in
> USB interfaces:-(
>
> Perhaps if people with working USB interfaces (that can reliably bulk dump
> AN1x data to/form the computer) would care to post a message...then we could
> weed out the good ones from the bad.

Re: MIDI Interfaces - avoid USB?

2001-02-16 by Bruce Wahler

> "Gary Gregson" <gary@y...> wrote {snipped}:
>
> The An1x uses big sysex packets for transferring patch data and is
very
> sensitive to the packet timing. Consequently it tends to show up
problems in
> USB interfaces:-(
>
> Perhaps if people with working USB interfaces (that can reliably
bulk dump
> AN1x data to/form the computer) would care to post a message...then
we could
> weed out the good ones from the bad.

Hello. I'm a new member of the list, but I've been a user of the
AN1x for almost two years, all of it with AN1xEdit (v1.02, then V1.1).

FWIW, I've had good results with the Midiman MIDISport 8x8USB in
Win98SE over the past 4-5 months. I had a bit of the overrun issues
with the original drivers, but since I upgraded to v1.04, I have had
exactly one problem -- and in that resulted in a very short
(<100K) "full" SysEx dump of the AN1x, accompanied by a lockup of
Windows, so I'm not sure that it wasn't an Windows glitch.

While we're on the subject of SysEx, is there any remote command to
initiate a complete dump of the AN1x (260391 bytes)? After reading
through the SysEx literature and playing around, I've come to the
conclusion that you can only a) initiate the dump from the synth, or
b) step through each of the patches and sequences by name (or using
the current program commands, and then incrementing the patch
count). Am I missing something?

Regards,

-BW

--
Bruce Wahler
Ashby Solutions"
www.ashbysolutions.com
CloneWheel Support Group moderator
978.386.7389 voice
978.776.0096 fax
bruce@...

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