Re: [AN1x-list] Re: Jp 8000/8080
2000-08-16 by PinheadX

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2000-08-16 by PinheadX
> > There you may read this:Thanx...that was a thread killer!...(lol)
> >
> > **"The AN1x is the first synthesizer in a long time that grabbed
> me, shook
> > me, and screamed "Play me!""
> > **"summary: Don't hesitate, BUY!"
> >
> > PinheadX.
>
> Touché, Pin! ;)
2000-08-16 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> Thanx...that was a thread killer!...(lol)Yup..lol...
> This review was one of the reasons that made me buy thissynth...along, of
2000-08-16 by PinheadX
> > Thanx...that was a thread killer!...(lol)It sounds just like I want. Fits very well in my style of music, I mean, it
> Yup..lol...
> > This review was one of the reasons that made me buy this
> synth...along, of
> Hm, to be honest...i read this review three times before i make the
> decision to buy this blue thingy...hehe...i did never regret! Ok,
> other parents have beautifull daughters, but i think AN1x can still
> compete, because of its unique sound.
2000-08-16 by Peter Korsten
> To compare a CS2x and a AN1x is like comparing apples and oranges.Well, substractive synthesis is what AMW2 is all about...
> The CS2x is a sampleplayer (AWM2-synthesis). The AN1x uses (virtual)
> substractive synthesis.
2000-08-16 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> From: <tomfinegan@y...>Hmmm...i hope you are not spanking...
>
> > > Thanx...that was a thread killer!...(lol)
> > Yup..lol...
> > > This review was one of the reasons that made me buy this
> > synth...along, of
> BTW, I still have the review's copy (on paper and close to my
> bed..:-)
2000-08-16 by Pinhead
> > To compare a CS2x and a AN1x is like comparing apples and oranges.(virtual)
> > The CS2x is a sampleplayer (AWM2-synthesis). The AN1x uses
> > substractive synthesis.XG, plus
>
> Well, substractive synthesis is what AMW2 is all about...
>
> But are you sure the CS2x has the AWM2 engine? I thought it was all
> one nice voice.Strange...but I'm not receiving some messages!?!?
2000-08-16 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> From: <tomfinegan@y...>(virtual)
>
> > To compare a CS2x and a AN1x is like comparing apples and oranges.
> > The CS2x is a sampleplayer (AWM2-synthesis). The AN1x uses
> > substractive synthesis.XG, plus
>
> Well, substractive synthesis is what AMW2 is all about...
>
> But are you sure the CS2x has the AWM2 engine? I thought it was all
> one nice voice.Hm...AFAIK is XG not an engine it´s a MIDI-file format, like GM or GS
2000-08-17 by Peter Korsten
> --- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, "Peter Korsten" <peterk@i...> wrote:There's no way you can compare the DB50XG, or any of the MU series, to the
>
> > Well, substractive synthesis is what AMW2 is all about...
> >
> > But are you sure the CS2x has the AWM2 engine? I thought it was all
> > XG, plus
> > one nice voice.
> Hm...AFAIK is XG not an engine it´s a MIDI-file format, like GM or GS
> is. Yes the CS2x has AWM2 engine, like CS1x, MUxxx, DB50XG, SW1000,
> S80, EX5(partly) and so forth. It uses samples as basic material. I
> don´t know how exactly it works, but IIUR does the engine takes at
> minimum one sample part, at most four sample parts and mixes them
> together, using ADSR, LFOs, FX and other XG-extratricks to produce a
> sound. When you have used XGedit by Gary, you know what i mean.
> I don´t know if you can set AWM2 and substractive synthesis equal.I'm not sure if this is the case. The Rolands compress their samples for
> But i know that AWM2 needs samples. Oh and Yamaha uses compressed
> samples. So if e.g. the DB50xg has 4MB Sample-Rom it is in reality
> 8MB and so on. Correct me, if i am wrong.
2000-08-17 by Phil
From: "Peter Korsten" <peterk@...>"...and the envelopes and filters in my EX5 kick the AN1x's butt major big time."
Hi Peter,
Just curious...
How do the Filters in the EX5 compare to the AN1x? Are there more types? Or, do you find they sound better??
Cheers,
Phil :-)
2000-08-17 by Gary Gregson
>>There's no way you can compare the DB50XG, or any of the MU series, to the
>>The thing with these XG tone generators is that they aren't programmable.
>>The AN1x is far superior to XG tone generatorsChalk and cheese....the devices are designed for different jobs. They also
>>I'm not sure if this is the case. The Rolands compress their samples for
2000-08-18 by Peter Korsten
> Peter wrote:I would imagine that the number of chips, especially those responsible for
>
> >>
> There's no way you can compare the DB50XG, or any of the MU series, to the
> EX5 (or S80 and CS6x, as far as I'm aware).
> <<
>
> Actually they are all based around the same chipsets and all use AWM2. The
> major differences are the numbers of chips provided, the samples and the
> level/modes of access to the parameters.
> >>However
> The thing with these XG tone generators is that they aren't programmable.
> You have voices, and you can play a bit with filter cut-off and resonance,
> plus the amplitude EG, but that's it. Voice #1 will always be a piano.
> <<
>
> You can do considerably more than that with an XG device. (what about
> tuning, LFO settings, EQ, voice layering and of course the effects!)
> in the end they conform to a standard....hence the voice map is fixed.Response of filter to keyboard velocity is something I don't see in my
> Its an essential trade off between compatibility and flexibility! In otherI know XG can sound pretty good. Still, I don't think it qualifies as a
> words the lower level AWM2 editing parameters are masked from the user and
> the sample set is fixed.
> >>The AN1x is far superior to XG tone generatorsThe only difference is the oscillator, or oscillators. After that, you get
>
> Chalk and cheese....the devices are designed for different jobs. They also
> use fundamentally different methods of synthesis. AN1x isn't much use for
> playing back multipart MIDI files with high poly. XG isn't much use for
> expressive analogue synthesis or bottom up sound design!
> >>the
> I'm not sure if this is the case. The Rolands compress their samples for
> sure - something I'm not in favour of. I'm positive that the samples in
> EX5 are uncompressed.I looked it up in the EX5 service manual and the thing has four 32 Mbit wave
> <<
>
> Almost all synths manufacturers compress the samples! Otherwise you would
> end up requiring huge ROMs for the voice sets. The EX5 is no exception.
2000-08-18 by Phil
I looked it up in the EX5 service manual and the thing has four 32 Mbit waveROMs (and four 8 Mbit OS ROMs), which makes for 16 Mb of uncompressed samples. Since the specs say that it indeed has 16 Mb of wave data and not 32 Mb, it's uncompressed.
From: "Peter Korsten" <peterk@...>
2000-08-18 by Phil
From: Phil <accession@...>
Reply-To: AN1x-list@egroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:37:06 +1000
To: <AN1x-list@egroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Re: Jp 8000/8080
Please excuse me for being new to this... :-)
Could you please explain how 4 x 32Mbit wave ROMS = 16Mb wave samples??? I can't quite grasp the maths here.
Cheers,
Phil
I looked it up in the EX5 service manual and the thing has four 32 Mbit waveROMs (and four 8 Mbit OS ROMs), which makes for 16 Mb of uncompressed samples. Since the specs say that it indeed has 16 Mb of wave data and not 32 Mb, it's uncompressed.
From: "Peter Korsten" <peterk@...>
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2000-08-18 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
--- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, "Peter Korsten" <peterk@i...> wrote:
> The AN1x is far superior to XG tone generators,
Now it is you, comparing apples and oranges. The AN1x is a virtual
analoge synthesizer, XG tone generators are sampleromplayer. So how
is AN1x superiour? Or can your AN1x play 16 different drumsets on all
16 MIDI-channels?
> and the envelopes and
> filters in my EX5 kick the AN1x's butt major big time.
Really? How? I wanna hear a prove, before i take it.
> Substractive synthesis is taking bits from the signal from the
oscillators
> away, and you do this with a filter. Since both (virtual) analogue
synths
> and S&S (sample and synthesis) synths work with oscillators -
whether this
> is a sample or something generated is irrelevant - they are
essentially the
> same.
Hm, fascinating. Do you know a site for more info about this topic?
Regards, Tom
2000-08-18 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> But the idea of a patch, meaning your own sound, is alien to XG.Hm, i am not so sure about that. Especially the DB50 has these
2000-08-18 by Peter Korsten
>Superior as in synthesis engine, as could be deducted from the context.
> --- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, "Peter Korsten" <peterk@i...> wrote:
> > The AN1x is far superior to XG tone generators,
> Now it is you, comparing apples and oranges. The AN1x is a virtual
> analoge synthesizer, XG tone generators are sampleromplayer. So how
> is AN1x superiour? Or can your AN1x play 16 different drumsets on all
> 16 MIDI-channels?
> > and the envelopes andSee my other (pretty long) mail about this issue. Essentially, the
> > filters in my EX5 kick the AN1x's butt major big time.
> Really? How? I wanna hear a prove, before i take it.
> > Substractive synthesis is taking bits from the signal from theNope, though perhaps a site like www.synthzone.com or www.synthsite.com
> oscillators
> > away, and you do this with a filter. Since both (virtual) analogue
> synths
> > and S&S (sample and synthesis) synths work with oscillators -
> whether this
> > is a sample or something generated is irrelevant - they are
> essentially the
> > same.
>
> Hm, fascinating. Do you know a site for more info about this topic?
2000-08-18 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> Superior as in synthesis engine, as could be deducted from thecontext.
> > > and the envelopes andInteresting, i didn´t know that (and never tried). But the EX5 cost
> > > filters in my EX5 kick the AN1x's butt major big time.
> > Really? How? I wanna hear a prove, before i take it.
>
> See my other (pretty long) mail about this issue. Essentially, the
> filter of the EX5 is better suited for some analogue sounds than
> that of the AN1x. For instance, if you want to make the famous CS80
> 'Vangelis horn', you need a filter envelope that doesn't start at
> 0. The EX5 can do this, the AN1x can't.
> Nope, though perhaps a site like www.synthzone.com orwww.synthsite.com
> has useful links.Oh ok, i´ll try. Thank you.
2000-08-18 by PinheadX
> > > > Thanx...that was a thread killer!...(lol)Nope...is the keyboard that spanks me...when I get too close to the
> > > Yup..lol...
> > > > This review was one of the reasons that made me buy this
> > > synth...along, of
> > BTW, I still have the review's copy (on paper and close to my
> > bed..:-)
> Hmmm...i hope you are not spanking...
> ...the keyboard...like some other ppl here...<G>...
>
> I am joking...;))
2000-08-18 by Peter Korsten
> --- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, Peter Korsten <peterk@i...> wrote:But we're comparing the engines, and they both work the same way.
> > Superior as in synthesis engine, as could be deducted from the
> context.
> Hm, i disagree. The synthesis engine in all XG-tone modules is
> different towards the AN1x, because the basis on XG-modules are
> samples. On the AN1x it´s just a handfull of simple waveforms (sinus,
> square etc.).
> Or would you compare a Mack truck with a Ferrari and say that the
> Ferrari has a superior engine, because the truck can´t run 190Mph?
> > See my other (pretty long) mail about this issue. Essentially, theWell, both are out of production anyway. :)
> > filter of the EX5 is better suited for some analogue sounds than
> > that of the AN1x. For instance, if you want to make the famous CS80
> > 'Vangelis horn', you need a filter envelope that doesn't start at
> > 0. The EX5 can do this, the AN1x can't.
> Interesting, i didn´t know that (and never tried). But the EX5 cost
> also twice and more as much as the AN1x...
2000-08-18 by tomfinegan@yahoo.com
> But we're comparing the engines, and they both work the same way.Hm, but then you mean the naked basic engine...then i agree, but you
> Additive synthesis in the Kawai K5000 (alas, also no longeravailable) works
> There are more and generally I don't understand a bit of how theywork.
> Butthe
> 'analogue synthesis' and S&S (sample and synthesis) are essentially
> same, because they are both substractive synthesis. The onlydifference is
> the oscillator, but that's only one part in the process.Ok, i admit, stripped down to this, the AN1x is superiour towards XG-
> Well, both are out of production anyway. :)Really the EX5 also? What´s gonna be next?
> What it can't do, however, is playing preset #10 'Legato' in achord. That's
> why I'm happy to have both.LOL...or with other words..."spanking" good.
2000-08-19 by Paul H. Richards
> Well, both are out of production anyway. :)
Really the EX5 also? What´s gonna be next?What's the story on the EX5...are all the EX's out of production also?? I thought that was going to be a new standard in Pro Keyboards??? What's Yamaha's position on this?
2000-08-20 by Sayer
> What's the story on the EX5...are all the EX's out of production also?? IThey deserted them because they are a support nightmare.
> thought that was going to be a new standard in Pro Keyboards??? What's
> Yamaha's position on this?
2000-08-21 by PinheadX
>also?? I
> > What's the story on the EX5...are all the EX's out of production
> > thought that was going to be a new standard in Pro Keyboards??? What's??? Really, this is true??? If it's a good reason to stop anything's
> > Yamaha's position on this?
>
> They deserted them because they are a support nightmare.
2000-08-22 by Peter Korsten
> --- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, "Peter Korsten" <peterk@i...> wrote:I really wouldn't know. I think the presets of the K5000 are boring, and I
> > Additive synthesis in the Kawai K5000 (alas, also no longer
> > available) works
> > The Yamaha FS1r is the latest example of the sort,
>
> Speaking of these two. I´ve read some reviews on harmony-central.com
> about the K5000 and a lot of ppl said, that the FS1r sounds like a
> K5000. Is it because of the intensive use of formants?
> > Well, both are out of production anyway. :)CS2x, SU700. It's rather simple: take a Yamaha product, and about two years
> Really the EX5 also? What´s gonna be next?