The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

I own an AN1x since about 1 Year and the only synthesizing I did so 
far was changing existing sounds, be they factory presets or 
downloaded in internet. 
 
I went and had a professional teach me the basics of FM theory 
(which he kindly showed me on a Nord Modular). I think I have 
understood the most important things. 
 
I am particularly interested in developing different piano sounds 
which implies creating "bing", "beng", and also "bong" sounds. 
 
So far I have understood that you need (as a minimum): 
 
- a carrier which is near to sine wave formed 
- a modulator which is fix tuned to a number of octaves (or part of 
octaves above the carrier, near to sine wave formed 
- a narrow envelope for the modulator (fast attack, fast decay) 
- a somewhat broader envelope for the carrier (fast attack, somewhat 
fast decay) 
 
If done properly you won't necessarily need much filtering. To 
change the sound of the above algorithm you can vary the fixed 
interval between carrier and modulator, or you can add a further 
sine wave synchronized to the carrier by some interval. 
 
This will generally provide you with a good "bong" sound, am I 
right. 
 
==== 
 
Now to my simple question: 
 
Can anybody be so nice and to explain me in simple words how I am to 
understand the various settings of AN1x such as "master", "slave", 
"both", "only fm", "fm source" etc.  These don't seem to fit into 
the things I described above. How do you set the envelope of the 
modulator in an AN1x? 
 
Even if I don't understand the AN1x-specific terms very well I still 
seem to have created quite nice bong-sounds anyway. But to create 
good pianos I want to know the whole truth. 
 
By the way, the DX-Piano which is factory preset I find is a 
beautifully sounding instrument which I can use a lot in my band, be 
it for solo playing or accompanying a singer. But I still feel the 
need of developing more of the same stuff - from marimba over 
e-piano to bells of various kinds.

Hey group,
 
As you all probably expect, I own a ANX1.
I am searching for the best "piano" sound. I know it's hard for the yamaha to create this sound, but does any of you suggest a patch which will work best for live performance ? i tried many of the available patches and found myselve only satisfied with the organ patches.
Thnxs in advance
 
Leeroy de boer 
 
_________________________________________________________________
Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Mr. Bing Beng Bong,

 

Congratulations for stepping into the mysterious, unexplored world of FM
systhesis – hereby barely touched on this list.

We all should admit that there’s been very little discussion about this
powerful parameter that Yamahaha has provided.  After all, Yamahaha owns the
patent on “FM synthesis”
 they were kind and foresighted enough to enclude
it with the AN series
 but they committed the sin that so many manufacturers
make: They didn’t explain it very well.

 

Pages 58 and 59 of the manual are where the parameters are provided.
However, they didn’t provide an overview of how FM synths work, their
implementation, the “operators” the “algorithms”, etc.

 

I never owned a DX7 but I had a Korg Z3 guitar synth which had the same
engine as a DX11.  Both of these are extremely more powerful than what the
AN series has, but I learned a tiny bit about how to program.
Unfortunately, that was so long ago it’s all vaporized in my head.

 

Maybe you could provide a link or two to good explainations of FM synthesis
so the list members might try to discern what Yamahaha was trying to say in
the manual.  Over the years I’ve collected many patches for my AN1x and I
must say that some of the strangest ones involve the FM section
 and I’ve
never been able to figure out what’s going on at all.


Ed²

PS – if you need the manual, it is in the files section of the list

 

(Wow – it wasn’t there!  So I took the liberty to upload it and the Data
List document.  Both are essential for AX1x programmers.  Under the
“Documents” section.)

  _____  

From: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of buenlimon
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:39 AM
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x] Question about FM

 

I own an AN1x since about 1 Year and the only synthesizing I did so 
far was changing existing sounds, be they factory presets or 
downloaded in internet. 

I went and had a professional teach me the basics of FM theory 
(which he kindly showed me on a Nord Modular). I think I have 
understood the most important things. 

I am particularly interested in developing different piano sounds 
which implies creating "bing", "beng", and also "bong" sounds. 

So far I have understood that you need (as a minimum): 

- a carrier which is near to sine wave formed 
- a modulator which is fix tuned to a number of octaves (or part of 
octaves above the carrier, near to sine wave formed 
- a narrow envelope for the modulator (fast attack, fast decay) 
- a somewhat broader envelope for the carrier (fast attack, somewhat 
fast decay) 

If done properly you won't necessarily need much filtering. To 
change the sound of the above algorithm you can vary the fixed 
interval between carrier and modulator, or you can add a further 
sine wave synchronized to the carrier by some interval. 

This will generally provide you with a good "bong" sound, am I 
right. 

==== 

Now to my simple question: 

Can anybody be so nice and to explain me in simple words how I am to 
understand the various settings of AN1x such as "master", "slave", 
"both", "only fm", "fm source" etc. These don't seem to fit into 
the things I described above. How do you set the envelope of the 
modulator in an AN1x? 

Even if I don't understand the AN1x-specific terms very well I still 
seem to have created quite nice bong-sounds anyway. But to create 
good pianos I want to know the whole truth. 

By the way, the DX-Piano which is factory preset I find is a 
beautifully sounding instrument which I can use a lot in my band, be 
it for solo playing or accompanying a singer. But I still feel the 
need of developing more of the same stuff - from marimba over 
e-piano to bells of various kinds. 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is a factory patch that sounds like an FM (DX7) piano.  I modified it
to get more treble punch out of it. IIIRC I opened up the edge to 127 and
then used the Enhancer as the effect.

 

HTH

 

  _____  

From: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of leeroy de boer
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:22 AM
To: an1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AN1x] piano sound

 


Hey group,

As you all probably expect, I own a ANX1.
I am searching for the best "piano" sound. I know it's hard for the yamaha
to create this sound, but does any of you suggest a patch which will work
best for live performance ? i tried many of the available patches and found
myselve only satisfied with the organ patches.
Thnxs in advance

Leeroy de boer 

__________________________________________________________
Stay organized with simple drag and drop from Windows Live Hotmail.
http://windowslive.
<http://windowslive.com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008>
com/Explore/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_102008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I owned a TX81z 4-Op back in the day, but I'd be hard pressed to recall an programming 
tips either... that said, here are some links of interest:

Don't know if Ski is on the list right now, but here's a thread from our friends at EX5Tech

http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=21&t=000005

Searched Wikipedia and found some related link...

A couple of good articles at SOS

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/sep97/synthschool3.html

Some theory

http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/fm.html

http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html

and a forum dedicated to the topic

http://www.soundshock.se/phpBB2/

Jon

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Ed Edwards" <gleobeam@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Mr. Bing Beng Bong,
> 
> Congratulations for stepping into the mysterious, unexplored world of FM
> systhesis – hereby barely touched on this list.
> 
> We all should admit that there's been very little discussion about this
> powerful parameter that Yamahaha has provided.  After all, Yamahaha owns the
> patent on "FM synthesis"
 they were kind and foresighted enough to enclude
> it with the AN series
 but they committed the sin that so many manufacturers
> make: They didn't explain it very well.
> 
> Pages 58 and 59 of the manual are where the parameters are provided.
> However, they didn't provide an overview of how FM synths work, their
> implementation, the "operators" the "algorithms", etc.
> 
> I never owned a DX7 but I had a Korg Z3 guitar synth which had the same
> engine as a DX11.  Both of these are extremely more powerful than what the
> AN series has, but I learned a tiny bit about how to program.
> Unfortunately, that was so long ago it's all vaporized in my head.
> 
> Maybe you could provide a link or two to good explainations of FM synthesis
> so the list members might try to discern what Yamahaha was trying to say in
> the manual.  Over the years I've collected many patches for my AN1x and I
> must say that some of the strangest ones involve the FM section
 and I've

> never been able to figure out what's going on at all.
> 
> 
> Ed²
> 
> PS – if you need the manual, it is in the files section of the list
> 
>  
> 
> (Wow – it wasn't there!  So I took the liberty to upload it and the Data
> List document.  Both are essential for AX1x programmers.  Under the
> "Documents" section.)
> 
>   _____  
> 
> From: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of buenlimon
> Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2008 2:39 AM
> To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [AN1x] Question about FM
> 
>  
> 
> I own an AN1x since about 1 Year and the only synthesizing I did so 
> far was changing existing sounds, be they factory presets or 
> downloaded in internet. 
> 
> I went and had a professional teach me the basics of FM theory 
> (which he kindly showed me on a Nord Modular). I think I have 
> understood the most important things. 
> 
> I am particularly interested in developing different piano sounds 
> which implies creating "bing", "beng", and also "bong" sounds. 
> 
> So far I have understood that you need (as a minimum): 
> 
> - a carrier which is near to sine wave formed 
> - a modulator which is fix tuned to a number of octaves (or part of 
> octaves above the carrier, near to sine wave formed 
> - a narrow envelope for the modulator (fast attack, fast decay) 
> - a somewhat broader envelope for the carrier (fast attack, somewhat 
> fast decay) 
> 
> If done properly you won't necessarily need much filtering. To 
> change the sound of the above algorithm you can vary the fixed 
> interval between carrier and modulator, or you can add a further 
> sine wave synchronized to the carrier by some interval. 
> 
> This will generally provide you with a good "bong" sound, am I 
> right. 
> 
> ==== 
> 
> Now to my simple question: 
> 
> Can anybody be so nice and to explain me in simple words how I am to 
> understand the various settings of AN1x such as "master", "slave", 
> "both", "only fm", "fm source" etc. These don't seem to fit into 
> the things I described above. How do you set the envelope of the 
> modulator in an AN1x? 
> 
> Even if I don't understand the AN1x-specific terms very well I still 
> seem to have created quite nice bong-sounds anyway. But to create 
> good pianos I want to know the whole truth. 
> 
> By the way, the DX-Piano which is factory preset I find is a 
> beautifully sounding instrument which I can use a lot in my band, be 
> it for solo playing or accompanying a singer. But I still feel the 
> need of developing more of the same stuff - from marimba over 
> e-piano to bells of various kinds. 
>

On Oct 22, 2008, at 12:34 PM, Jon wrote:

> I owned a TX81z 4-Op back in the day, but I'd be hard pressed to  
> recall an programming
> tips either... that said, here are some links of interest:
>
> Don't know if Ski is on the list right now, but here's a thread from  
> our friends at EX5Tech
>
> http://www.ex5tech.com/ex5ubb_cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=21&t=000005
>
> Searched Wikipedia and found some related link...
>
> A couple of good articles at SOS
>
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
>
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/sep97/synthschool3.html
>
> Some theory
>
> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/fm.html
>
> http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html
>
> and a forum dedicated to the topic
>
> http://www.soundshock.se/phpBB2/
>
> Jon

Excellent links, Jon.

For a nice intro to how FM works, check out Episode 4 at Inside  
Synthesis.

It's part 1 so perhaps he'll continue with a Part 2. Someday.

http://insidesynthesis.blogspot.com/


Mibrilane
mibrilane@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Dear Mr. Bing Beng Bong,
> 
> Congratulations for stepping into the mysterious, unexplored world of FM
> systhesis – hereby barely touched on this list.
> 
> We all should admit that there's been very little discussion about this
> powerful parameter that Yamahaha has provided.  After all, Yamahaha
owns the
> patent on "FM synthesis"… they were kind and foresighted enough to
enclude
> it with the AN series… but they committed the sin that so many
manufacturers
> make: They didn't explain it very well.
> 
This is not the problem. I have understood the basics. But I haven't
understood the specific AN1x terms like "source" and also not
completely understood what the "syncronization" does.
> 
> Pages 58 and 59 of the manual are where the parameters are provided.
> However, they didn't provide an overview of how FM synths work, their
> implementation, the "operators" the "algorithms", etc.
> 
That's right. These pages - and the following - after page 60 - I have
read again and again and experimented a lot with the settings.  
> 
> the manual.  Over the years I've collected many patches for my AN1x
and I
> must say that some of the strangest ones involve the FM section… and
I've
> never been able to figure out what's going on at all.
> 
I went and had lessons with a German professional who has synthesized
a lot, including for the film industry - the most strange sounds. 
Whenever I spoke any sound to him like "whaoung" for example, he was
able to explain what the components were and how it was to program. As
he heard the "bong" he said this is one of the most basic sounds in FM
at all since this sound needs only two operators.

He then showed me on an oscillator how he was able to make almost any
wave form through additive synthesis (no FM) - and FM - alone and in
combination. Then at last he played me sounds so strange that I would
never have imagined such sounds possible.

My question was a simple one: what do the specific AN1x terms mean?

> Searched Wikipedia and found some related link...
> 
> A couple of good articles at SOS
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr00/articles/synthsecrets.htm
> 
> http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_articles/sep97/synthschool3.html
> 

Thank you so much for taking time for this one!!!

Here is actually some very interesting stuff. On that site I found a
couple of additional pages too on the same topic.

Actually there is on this site a lot of pages describing how to
generally synthesize specific waveforms to arrive at defined goals
(synthetic flute, synthetic violin etc.). Very very interesting. I
will have many hours of study on this site.

> Some theory
> 
> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/software/snd/snd/fm.html
> 
> http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/fmtut.html
> 
> and a forum dedicated to the topic

Oh my, this is heavy stuff almost not digestible...

> http://www.soundshock.se/phpBB2/

Thank you for this one. It is a super source!

====

Anyway, I still have a bit problems to understand what it means, when
the AN1x manual explains that you can set VCO1 to "sync" and thus get
a VCO1s synced to VCO1 by a defined interval. This I understand. But
when I play a note I hear only the upper one (VCO1s if it's tuned higher).

A logical way of making a typical FM sound is to use for example VCO1
synced to VCO1s by "12" meaning VCO1s is one octave higher than VCO1,
and then have VCO1s modulate VCO1 through FM and have the "depth" of
this modulation determined through FEV (which is set to another
profile than PEV). This I have tried, but it doesn't sound like I expect.

So by analysing how the DX factory preset is made I see that VCO2 is
used as "source", which probably means "modulator" (is that so???).
Then in "mix" they set VCO1 to "127" and VCO2 to "0" meaning you don't
hear VCO2 at all. So I take it that the only thing VCO2 does in this
situation is to modulate. (Since you can't hear the thing then it must
do something else which must then be modulation, is that so?).
In this case they have set VCO1s synced to "-2" meaning 1 whole tone
under VCO1.  Actually you can't really hear this strange setting.
What's going on here?

I am talking about the simplest of all algorithms that exist - two
operators, the one modulating the other.  It's just that I seem to not
really get the expected result, or I have misunderstood something in
the manual.

On 23 Oct 2008 at 19:07, buenlimon wrote:

 
> Anyway, I still have a bit problems to understand what it means, when
> the AN1x manual explains that you can set VCO1 to "sync" and thus get
> a VCO1s synced to VCO1 by a defined interval. This I understand. But
> when I play a note I hear only the upper one (VCO1s if it's tuned
> higher).

I estimate you know how oscillator sync works, the AN1x is using a 
virtual master oscillatorto sync VCO1 while VCO2 can be used 
otherwise, for instance as Modulator when selected in FM Src2. 
 
> A logical way of making a typical FM sound is to use for example VCO1
> synced to VCO1s by "12" meaning VCO1s is one octave higher than VCO1,
> and then have VCO1s modulate VCO1 through FM and have the "depth" of
> this modulation determined through FEV (which is set to another
> profile than PEV). This I have tried, but it doesn't sound like I
> expect.

Well, the problem is that (I guess) you're refering to phase 
modulation, what is Yamahas Version of FM. True FM as used in analog 
synths tends (due to the DC-Offset of the modulator) to detune the 
Carrier Waveform and here comes the point where sync is usefull to 
FM. The virtual master Oscillator can help to keep the carrier in 
tune.
 
Hope this helps a bit!

...Summa


-- 

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