The Yamaha AN1x Synthesizer mailing list

I´m working in a projekt studio, with a G4 and a motu midi 
express XT (usb) and every time i try to load a sound from the 
AN1X editor i get the SysExSize error - can anybody help me to 
solve this problem???

Yes, get rid of the USB MID Interface; buy a serial port adapter for 
your G4; get a standard MIDI Interface to run off the serial port. 
USB 
and SysEx do not work well together.  I've had miserable luck with
USB 
and SysEx on my Mac G3.  I still use my serial port MIDI Interface
from 
Opcode and have no problems with SysEx.

FYI - I've used OMS 2.3.8 and the USB v1.4.1 drivers from Apple with
a 
MIDIMAN 2x2 v1.6 drivers. Note On/Off events work - SysEx does not
:-( 
Check the Cubase and Logic Mac email lists and you'll find similar 
stories.  The only USB MIDI Interface that I've heard works with
SysEc 
is the Emagic Unitor. Joel (used to be on this list) has used one 
successfully for SysEx.

regards,
Jon

--- In AN1x-list@egroups.com, Jozej@n... wrote:

> I´m working in a projekt studio, with a G4 and a motu midi 
> express XT (usb) and every time i try to load a sound from the 
> AN1X editor i get the SysExSize error - can anybody help me to 
> solve this problem???

The unfortunate problem is that USB just doesn't work well with Sysex (its
inherent in the way such interfaces implement the MIDI protocol. i.e sysex
tends to get concatenated together, due to the bandwidth discrepancy between
USB/MIDI and the lack of end to end handshake. The net result is that  the
receiving device cannot respond to fast enough!)

You may not see this problem if you are only sending short sysex packets
(such as tweaking a knob on the An1xEdit interface). However for patch dumps
the AN1x uses large numbers of huge sysex messages.....and these must be
correctly timed for the device to respond correctly.

I believe some manufacturers are starting to manage the USB timing problem
within their drivers (i.e. by internally timing how long it 'theoretically'
takes to send a message before reporting to the application that it has
gone.....or by providing some additional software handshake protocol over
USB). However I have yet to see any such interface that is 'rock solid' for
high bandwidth MIDI in a multi device/multi application environment.

hence the only reliable solution is to get a standard serial MIDI interface.

Sorry :-(

Regards

Gary
Email:
	gary@...
	http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jozej@... [mailto:Jozej@...]
> Sent: 29 July 2000 23:03
> To: AN1x-list@egroups.com
> Subject: [AN1x-list] Question: SysExSize Error
>
>
> I\ufffdm working in a projekt studio, with a G4 and a motu midi
> express XT (usb) and every time i try to load a sound from the
> AN1X editor i get the SysExSize error - can anybody help me to
> solve this problem???

From: "Gary Gregson" <gary@...>


> [why MIDI over USB is not a good idea]
>
> hence the only reliable solution is to get a standard serial MIDI
interface.

I myself am waiting on mLAN. It's been in the waiting for quite a while, but
the newly announced Korg Trition Rack has mLAN support. Now that is a good
sign.

My humble AN1x would still have to work with good old MIDI. I'll have to
wait how to combine it in my current setup.

- Peter

Peter wrote:
> I myself am waiting on mLAN. It's been in the waiting for quite a
> while, but
> the newly announced Korg Trition Rack has mLAN support. Now that is a good
> sign.

Yes I think we will (at last) see some mLAN products this year.

Unlike USB, mLAN handles the MIDI protocol correctly. It effectively divides
the full mLAN bandwidth into multiple streams at the correct MIDI
bandwidth....so it looks like you have a whole bunch of MIDI ports with each
operating at 31.25Kbits/s. In this way it overcomes the bandwidth
discontinuity (and thus sysex bunching) that USB introduces. Therefore it
should be reliable :-)

> My humble AN1x would still have to work with good old MIDI. I'll have to
> wait how to combine it in my current setup.

I think there will be break out boxes to convert mLAN to standard MIDI
ports. The only reservation si going to be price....as the Firewire chipset
is still (relatively) expensive :-(

Regards

Gary
Email:
	gary@...
	http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Korsten [mailto:peterk@...]
> Sent: 30 July 2000 20:05
> To: AN1x-list@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [AN1x-list] Question: SysExSize Error

Gary Gregson shared with us:
> Peter wrote:
> > I myself am waiting on mLAN. It's been in the waiting for quite a
> > while, but
> > the newly announced Korg Trition Rack has mLAN support. Now that is a good
> > sign.
> 
> Yes I think we will (at last) see some mLAN products this year.

That's about time. My silver EX5 has this unused panel on the back
that's screaming for an mLAN board. OK, so actually it was me who
has been doing the screaming. :)

> Unlike USB, mLAN handles the MIDI protocol correctly. It effectively divides
> the full mLAN bandwidth into multiple streams at the correct MIDI
> bandwidth....so it looks like you have a whole bunch of MIDI ports with each
> operating at 31.25Kbits/s. In this way it overcomes the bandwidth
> discontinuity (and thus sysex bunching) that USB introduces. Therefore it
> should be reliable :-)

I'll let you know as soon as I've set things up. :)

> > My humble AN1x would still have to work with good old MIDI. I'll have to
> > wait how to combine it in my current setup.
> 
> I think there will be break out boxes to convert mLAN to standard MIDI
> ports. The only reservation si going to be price....as the Firewire chipset
> is still (relatively) expensive :-(

The trouble is, I already have such a rather expensive break-out
box: my 01V digital mixer. I would be happy if I could just tap
off the MIDI from somewhere. The AN1x is happy with two inputs on
the 01V, but MIDI is another story. (And of course, the 01V doesn't
send the excess MIDI from the To Host port to the MIDI outs, so I
doubt it will do so if I equip it with mLAN.)

- Peter

Peter wrote:

>> I think there will be break out boxes to convert mLAN to standard MIDI
>> ports. The only reservation is going to be price....as the Firewire
>> chipset is still (relatively) expensive :-(
>
> The trouble is, I already have such a rather expensive break-out
> box: my 01V digital mixer. I would be happy if I could just tap
> off the MIDI from somewhere. The AN1x is happy with two inputs on
> the 01V, but MIDI is another story. (And of course, the 01V doesn't
> send the excess MIDI from the To Host port to the MIDI outs, so I
> doubt it will do so if I equip it with mLAN.)

Hmmm...normally on TO HOST ports you can designate additional TO HOST
streams to be directed to the MIDI out ports (On MUxxx units this function
is normally accessed from the UTIL/SYSTEM LCD function. e.g. setting Thru
Port = 3 directs the third TO HOST port stream via the MIDI OUT. Also one of
the MIDI IN ports is routed direct to TO HOST receive). I don't have an 01V
for testing, but I would imagine the same is true???

Either way, I will raise your query on mLAN breakout with the 'powers that
be' next time I see them.

Regards

Gary
Email:
	gary@...
	http://www.yme.co.uk/yme

Late reaction... but better late than never.

From: "Gary Gregson" <gary@...>

> Peter wrote:
>
> > The trouble is, I already have such a rather expensive break-out
> > box: my 01V digital mixer. I would be happy if I could just tap
> > off the MIDI from somewhere. The AN1x is happy with two inputs on
> > the 01V, but MIDI is another story. (And of course, the 01V doesn't
> > send the excess MIDI from the To Host port to the MIDI outs, so I
> > doubt it will do so if I equip it with mLAN.)
>
> Hmmm...normally on TO HOST ports you can designate additional TO HOST
> streams to be directed to the MIDI out ports (On MUxxx units this function
> is normally accessed from the UTIL/SYSTEM LCD function. e.g. setting Thru
> Port = 3 directs the third TO HOST port stream via the MIDI OUT. Also one
of
> the MIDI IN ports is routed direct to TO HOST receive). I don't have an
01V
> for testing, but I would imagine the same is true???

There's nothing you can set about MIDI and To Host on the 01V, other than
which one you want to use, and what MIDI channel.

I've heard mention that you could use high unit numbers (greater than four,
I believe) but since Yamaha can't be bothered to write Windows NT serial
MIDI drivers, and I therefore have to use the Roland ones that 'only'
support two locical units, there's no way I can test this.

And it would have been so nice. The 01V only uses one MIDI channel, so I
could easily cascade the AN1x. But no, no such luck.

> Either way, I will raise your query on mLAN breakout with the 'powers that
> be' next time I see them.

Oh, I'm not worthy to stand in your shadow. :)

Thanks!

- Peter