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RE: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-20 by Bob S.

Thanks Brian for that detail, so I won't waste my time on anything that really can't be done !

Instead, it look like I will be working on getting the studio PC running this weekend, or at least after I get a few midi cables run to the midi switch and interface......

Bob
El Segundo, CA

-----Original Message-----

>From: "Rost, Brian" <rost@...>
>Sent: Jul 19, 2006 11:22 AM
>To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: RE: [AN1x] Digest Number 1769
>
>"Bob S." wrote:
>
>> I just got a CS6x with a PLG150AN board and I am a
>> little peturbed I can not access many parameters including
>> arps without a PC (I am just re-setting up my studio and
>> don't have the PC setup yet). Has anyone tried using somthing
>> like a Peavey 1600x fader unit, programmed to access the
>> parameters not accessible from the front panel?
>
>The simple answer is you can't do what you want.
>
>Even if you program up a voice that assigns a CC to every slot in the
>control matrix and use the hardwired CCs (like 71 and 74 for the filter)
>you still can't get at everything on the PLG card with a control surface
>like the Peavey. For example you can't select VCO and LFO waveforms or
>arp patterns, never mind program the Free EG or step sequencer.
>
>The final blow to using a control surface is that the changes are all
>real time and cannot be saved! I use a Motif ES not a CS6x but what I
>can reach through the control matrix is the same stuff I can already
>access through the Motif/PLG programming interface "offsets". At least
>when I program from the Motif I can save my edits!!!
>
>BTW I am not trying to apologize for Yamaha, this to me is a BIG problem
>with the PLG boards. If I had direct access to all parameters from the
>Motif (OK, I'd be willing to give up the step sequencer, free EG and the
>arpeggiator) I'd be in heaven but that will never be the case. It's
>obvious that the designers expected most users to control the boards
>through software.
>
>Bob, your best bet is to get your PC up and running ASAP. I went to the
>extreme of buying a cheap laptop which is dedicated 100% to running the
>PLG and Motif voice editors.
>
>--
> Brian Rost
> Stargen, Inc.
>
>**********************************************************************
>
>
>

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-20 by hemmer12000

Bob - the limitations you've noticed is exactly why I got rid of my 2
AN cards. I had a CS6X with 2 ANs. While it sounded beautiful, I did
not like the fact I could not access many parameters from within the 6X.
I was lucky to find someone through this group who wanted to trade
straight for an AN1X. I couldn't be happier now.

If you can deal with always having to have your PC on to work with the
AN, you'll be just as happy.

Ed

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Brian for that detail, so I won't waste my time on anything
that really can't be done !
>
> Instead, it look like I will be working on getting the studio PC
running this weekend, or at least after I get a few midi cables run to
the midi switch and interface......
>
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Rost, Brian" <rost@...>
> >Sent: Jul 19, 2006 11:22 AM
> >To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [AN1x] Digest Number 1769
> >
> >"Bob S." wrote:
> >
> >> I just got a CS6x with a PLG150AN board and I am a
> >> little peturbed I can not access many parameters including
> >> arps without a PC (I am just re-setting up my studio and
> >> don't have the PC setup yet). Has anyone tried using somthing
> >> like a Peavey 1600x fader unit, programmed to access the
> >> parameters not accessible from the front panel?
> >
> >The simple answer is you can't do what you want.
> >
> >Even if you program up a voice that assigns a CC to every slot in the
> >control matrix and use the hardwired CCs (like 71 and 74 for the
filter)
> >you still can't get at everything on the PLG card with a control
surface
> >like the Peavey. For example you can't select VCO and LFO waveforms or
> >arp patterns, never mind program the Free EG or step sequencer.
> >
> >The final blow to using a control surface is that the changes are all
> >real time and cannot be saved! I use a Motif ES not a CS6x but what I
> >can reach through the control matrix is the same stuff I can already
> >access through the Motif/PLG programming interface "offsets". At least
> >when I program from the Motif I can save my edits!!!
> >
> >BTW I am not trying to apologize for Yamaha, this to me is a BIG
problem
> >with the PLG boards. If I had direct access to all parameters from the
> >Motif (OK, I'd be willing to give up the step sequencer, free EG
and the
> >arpeggiator) I'd be in heaven but that will never be the case. It's
> >obvious that the designers expected most users to control the boards
> >through software.
> >
> >Bob, your best bet is to get your PC up and running ASAP. I went to the
> >extreme of buying a cheap laptop which is dedicated 100% to running the
> >PLG and Motif voice editors.
> >
> >--
> > Brian Rost
> > Stargen, Inc.
> >
> >**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
>

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-20 by Bob S.

Thanks Ed. One I get the PC up & running, I will be able to tell if using the software will be my ultimate solution or if I will go your path....

BTW....you traded the 2 AN cards or the whole CS6X ?

Thanks
Bob
El Segundo, CA

----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: hemmer12000
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

Bob - the limitations you've noticed is exactly why I got rid of my 2
AN cards. I had a CS6X with 2 ANs. While it sounded beautiful, I did
not like the fact I could not access many parameters from within the 6X.
I was lucky to find someone through this group who wanted to trade
straight for an AN1X. I couldn't be happier now.

If you can deal with always having to have your PC on to work with the
AN, you'll be just as happy.

Ed

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Brian for that detail, so I won't waste my time on anything
that really can't be done !
>
> Instead, it look like I will be working on getting the studio PC
running this weekend, or at least after I get a few midi cables run to
the midi switch and interface......
>
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: "Rost, Brian" <rost@...>
> >Sent: Jul 19, 2006 11:22 AM
> >To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: RE: [AN1x] Digest Number 1769
> >
> >"Bob S." wrote:
> >
> >> I just got a CS6x with a PLG150AN board and I am a
> >> little peturbed I can not access many parameters including
> >> arps without a PC (I am just re-setting up my studio and
> >> don't have the PC setup yet). Has anyone tried using somthing
> >> like a Peavey 1600x fader unit, programmed to access the
> >> parameters not accessible from the front panel?
> >
> >The simple answer is you can't do what you want.
> >
> >Even if you program up a voice that assigns a CC to every slot in the
> >control matrix and use the hardwired CCs (like 71 and 74 for the
filter)
> >you still can't get at everything on the PLG card with a control
surface
> >like the Peavey. For example you can't select VCO and LFO waveforms or
> >arp patterns, never mind program the Free EG or step sequencer.
> >
> >The final blow to using a control surface is that the changes are all
> >real time and cannot be saved! I use a Motif ES not a CS6x but what I
> >can reach through the control matrix is the same stuff I can already
> >access through the Motif/PLG programming interface "offsets". At least
> >when I program from the Motif I can save my edits!!!
> >
> >BTW I am not trying to apologize for Yamaha, this to me is a BIG
problem
> >with the PLG boards. If I had direct access to all parameters from the
> >Motif (OK, I'd be willing to give up the step sequencer, free EG
and the
> >arpeggiator) I'd be in heaven but that will never be the case. It's
> >obvious that the designers expected most users to control the boards
> >through software.
> >
> >Bob, your best bet is to get your PC up and running ASAP. I went to the
> >extreme of buying a cheap laptop which is dedicated 100% to running the
> >PLG and Motif voice editors.
> >
> >--
> > Brian Rost
> > Stargen, Inc.
> >
> >**********************************************************************
> >
> >
> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-23 by hemmer12000

Bob,

No I only traded the cards. Funny enough, a few days later I found
someone on Harmony-Central.com's reader ads who wanted to trade their
EX5R for a CS6X...and in my home town.

The Motif ES I just got kind of made the CS6X redundant sound-wise,
and I traded it for the EX5R. A way cool sounding synth!

Good luck,

Ed

Show quoted textHide quoted text

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Ed. One I get the PC up & running, I will be able to tell if
using the software will be my ultimate solution or if I will go your
path....
>
> BTW....you traded the 2 AN cards or the whole CS6X ?
>
> Thanks
> Bob
> El Segundo, CA
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: hemmer12000
> To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 7:30 AM
> Subject: Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN
>
>
> Bob - the limitations you've noticed is exactly why I got rid of my 2
> AN cards. I had a CS6X with 2 ANs. While it sounded beautiful, I did
> not like the fact I could not access many parameters from within
the 6X.
> I was lucky to find someone through this group who wanted to trade
> straight for an AN1X. I couldn't be happier now.
>
> If you can deal with always having to have your PC on to work with the
> AN, you'll be just as happy.
>
> Ed
>
> --- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "Bob S." <tttsystems@> wrote:
> >
> > Thanks Brian for that detail, so I won't waste my time on anything
> that really can't be done !
> >
> > Instead, it look like I will be working on getting the studio PC
> running this weekend, or at least after I get a few midi cables run to
> the midi switch and interface......
> >
> > Bob
> > El Segundo, CA
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: "Rost, Brian" <rost@>
> > >Sent: Jul 19, 2006 11:22 AM
> > >To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
> > >Subject: RE: [AN1x] Digest Number 1769
> > >
> > >"Bob S." wrote:
> > >
> > >> I just got a CS6x with a PLG150AN board and I am a
> > >> little peturbed I can not access many parameters including
> > >> arps without a PC (I am just re-setting up my studio and
> > >> don't have the PC setup yet). Has anyone tried using somthing
> > >> like a Peavey 1600x fader unit, programmed to access the
> > >> parameters not accessible from the front panel?
> > >
> > >The simple answer is you can't do what you want.
> > >
> > >Even if you program up a voice that assigns a CC to every slot
in the
> > >control matrix and use the hardwired CCs (like 71 and 74 for the
> filter)
> > >you still can't get at everything on the PLG card with a control
> surface
> > >like the Peavey. For example you can't select VCO and LFO
waveforms or
> > >arp patterns, never mind program the Free EG or step sequencer.
> > >
> > >The final blow to using a control surface is that the changes
are all
> > >real time and cannot be saved! I use a Motif ES not a CS6x but
what I
> > >can reach through the control matrix is the same stuff I can
already
> > >access through the Motif/PLG programming interface "offsets".
At least
> > >when I program from the Motif I can save my edits!!!
> > >
> > >BTW I am not trying to apologize for Yamaha, this to me is a BIG
> problem
> > >with the PLG boards. If I had direct access to all parameters
from the
> > >Motif (OK, I'd be willing to give up the step sequencer, free EG
> and the
> > >arpeggiator) I'd be in heaven but that will never be the case. It's
> > >obvious that the designers expected most users to control the
boards
> > >through software.
> > >
> > >Bob, your best bet is to get your PC up and running ASAP. I
went to the
> > >extreme of buying a cheap laptop which is dedicated 100% to
running the
> > >PLG and Motif voice editors.
> > >
> > >--
> > > Brian Rost
> > > Stargen, Inc.
> > >
> >
>**********************************************************************
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-23 by Peter Korsten

hemmer12000 schreef:

> No I only traded the cards. Funny enough, a few days later I found
> someone on Harmony-Central.com's reader ads who wanted to trade their
> EX5R for a CS6X...and in my home town.
>
> The Motif ES I just got kind of made the CS6X redundant sound-wise,
> and I traded it for the EX5R. A way cool sounding synth!

Ah yes, that's certainly a nice piece of kit. I used to have a
second-hand one for about a year, until I sold it on and used the
proceeds to get a (silver) EX5, because I wanted the big keyboard.

What's nice is that is some similar or identical patches to the AN1x,
but they sound a bit different.

- Peter

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-23 by Bob S.

Nice trades. I've never traded a keyboard....don't know how to trade with someone without losing sleep or money.....

So if I wanted a next path of Yamaha synths with some good digital, some sampling, some VA and programmable arps, which way might I go ?

Bob
El Segundo, CA

----- Original Message -----

Show quoted textHide quoted text

From: Peter Korsten
To: AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 12:46 AM
Subject: Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

hemmer12000 schreef:

> No I only traded the cards. Funny enough, a few days later I found
> someone on Harmony-Central.com's reader ads who wanted to trade their
> EX5R for a CS6X...and in my home town.
>
> The Motif ES I just got kind of made the CS6X redundant sound-wise,
> and I traded it for the EX5R. A way cool sounding synth!

Ah yes, that's certainly a nice piece of kit. I used to have a
second-hand one for about a year, until I sold it on and used the
proceeds to get a (silver) EX5, because I wanted the big keyboard.

What's nice is that is some similar or identical patches to the AN1x,
but they sound a bit different.

- Peter

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [AN1x] CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-23 by Peter Korsten

Bob S. schreef:

> So if I wanted a next path of Yamaha synths with some good digital, some sampling, some VA and programmable arps, which way might I go ?

Well, you could try an EX5(R), although probably not for sampling. It's
excellent as a synth, but not as a workstation.

Alternatively, you could get a Motif (ES) with a PLG board or two.

- Peter

Re: CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-25 by hemmer12000

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, Peter Korsten <peter@...> wrote:

>
> Bob S. schreef:
>
> > So if I wanted a next path of Yamaha synths with some good

digital, some sampling, some VA and programmable arps, which way might
I go ?

>
> Well, you could try an EX5(R), although probably not for sampling. It's
> excellent as a synth, but not as a workstation.
>
> Alternatively, you could get a Motif (ES) with a PLG board or two.
>
> - Peter
>

Yeah, it's a shame Yamaha never made the next generation EX5. Yes, a
Motif ES with a AN and a VL card would be close if not surpass the
capabilities of an EX5 (no FDSP), but I'm not much of a fan of the PLG
cards. The segregation of sound and control, that is, you cannot
program the PLG cards in the host itself, makes it a pale comparison
to an EX5. Seriously, I loved the AN cards' sound, but controlling
them was tedious. For instance, and this is my biggest gripe, if I
liked a sound but it incorporated an arp or step sequence, I COULD
ONLY TURN IT OFF THROUGH SOFTWARE! Annoying. I also didn't like having
to store user sounds to Smart Media...my CS6X wouldn't consistantly
load an AUTOLD file and it often ended up corrupted. At least the EX5
allows you to edit and store sounds internally.

I haven't tried sampling with the EX5R, mainly because I don't have a
SCSI card with mine. But, the integration of sampling in the Motif ES
is simply excellent - far beyond the EX5. But now that I think about
it, I guess the ES doesn't have FDSP...wonder what I could do with
samples and FDSP? Hmmm....

One last plug for the ES, the sequencer is excellent. It has been some
15 years since I've been absorbed by an external sequencer (MMT8,
Ensoniq EPS). I find myself "playing" with the sequencer and sounds,
and it does not impede creativity with technical roadblocks.

Ed

Re: CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-25 by uralmoto2001

--- In AN1x-list@yahoogroups.com, "hemmer12000" <gelmetti_mdk@...>
wrote:

>...I loved the AN cards' sound, but controlling
> them was tedious. For instance, and this is my biggest gripe, if I
> liked a sound but it incorporated an arp or step sequence, I COULD
> ONLY TURN IT OFF THROUGH SOFTWARE! Annoying. I also didn't like
>having
> to store user sounds to Smart Media...my CS6X wouldn't consistantly
> load an AUTOLD file and it often ended up corrupted. At least the EX5
> allows you to edit and store sounds internally...
>
> I have an S80(same synth engine as CS6X) with AN and DX cards.

Yes, it would be nice if all parameters could be edited from the synth
itself. I don't like doing edits from a computer, but the AN expert
editor is well thought out. I use the S80s' 5 assignable knobs for
realtime control of important AN parameters. It is possible to turn
off an arpeg or sequence from the synth itself: hit the edit button,
go to Plg_Native parameters, and there is the arpeg/SQ on/off switch.
Takes about 3 seconds. If you want to save the patch with the sequence
off, it could be stored into the PLG bank. My AUTOLD files have always
loaded like they're supposed to(maybe I'm just lucky). I do find it
annoying that it takes a while to load all the files from card to
synth when you power up(S80 external voices, S80 external
performances, AN and DX userbanks.) -Steve

Re: [AN1x] Re: CS6x with a PLG150AN

2006-07-25 by Peter Korsten

hemmer12000 schreef:

> Yeah, it's a shame Yamaha never made the next generation EX5. Yes, a
> Motif ES with a AN and a VL card would be close if not surpass the
> capabilities of an EX5 (no FDSP), but I'm not much of a fan of the PLG
> cards. The segregation of sound and control, that is, you cannot
> program the PLG cards in the host itself, makes it a pale comparison
> to an EX5. Seriously, I loved the AN cards' sound, but controlling
> them was tedious. For instance, and this is my biggest gripe, if I
> liked a sound but it incorporated an arp or step sequence, I COULD
> ONLY TURN IT OFF THROUGH SOFTWARE! Annoying. I also didn't like having
> to store user sounds to Smart Media...my CS6X wouldn't consistantly
> load an AUTOLD file and it often ended up corrupted. At least the EX5
> allows you to edit and store sounds internally.

The problem with the EX5, though, is that it is a flawed gem. Look at
the AN1x: it's simple, it does exactly what it promises, and you always
get your 10 voices.

The EX5, then... It has been claimed that the engineers built a
super-synth, and then the commercial people decided it needed to be a
workstation.

So you have a sequencer that is not exactly easy to use, and as for
sampling and disc access, let's not even go there. The problem is that
the EX5 has two CPUs and two DSPs. One CPU controls the external
peripherals, the other controls the DSPs. The memory is connected to the
DSPs.

Now, to get data from the disc (either floppy, SCSI or Firewire if you
managed to get the mLAN upgrade) to the memory requires that it passes
from one CPU to the other. And the bottleneck is there: it's either a
tiny amount of shared memory, or a narrow bus over which all the data
has to travel. The EX5's problems are endemic in the design.

Apart from that, there are only two AN voices (compared to 10 on the
AN1x), or only one VL voice, or 16 FDSP voices, but not combined (except
AN and FDSP, but both are halved). And doing this costs you an effect.

Also, it can't really reach those 126 voices. It's very deep, but it has
so many problems that it can't have been a great success, and thus
Yamaha will be reluctant to release a successor, when workstations like
the Motif and those of the competition are safe and secure.

Having said all this, the EX5 is still a stunningly beautiful
instrument, that does things that no other synth can do. Perhaps it's
the last of a great line of Yamaha over-the-top synths, like the GX1,
the DX1 or the VL1. I would hope it's not, though.

> I haven't tried sampling with the EX5R, mainly because I don't have a
> SCSI card with mine. But, the integration of sampling in the Motif ES
> is simply excellent - far beyond the EX5. But now that I think about
> it, I guess the ES doesn't have FDSP...wonder what I could do with
> samples and FDSP? Hmmm....

Use the EX5 as a synth and you'll be very happy. Use it as a workstation
and be prepared for some disappointments. Still, if you upload a sample
and mangle it with FDSP, you can do some wicked things indeed.

- Peter