Unfortunately,
I have not been able to detect any faulty wire yet.
But something that could be important was evident: I checked the pin 6 (inhibit/enable) in the 4051s in the TSBs. When pressing the corresponding keys in the half octave, they pass from the OFF state (+8,5 V) to the ON (-6,5), staying steady until a new key from another (half) octave is pressed. Well, in the TSB1 all of the pin 6 stay on the OFF state (+8,5) whatever key is pressed on the keyboard. In the TSB2, the IC 1 does not work as well, while IC 2,3,4,5 are OK.
While the outputs (pin 3) give a raising voltage related to the corresponding (half) octave key pressure ONLY in the last (and only working) octave ICs: IC 4 and 5 of TSB2.
That's all.
Can this help? At least, could a specific wire problem cause all of these faults? I feel a little worried. Is this the end of my baby?
The great techs are so far from here, Kent, isn't it? :-)
And my skilled friends in Italy have their own job
Waiting for your VERY precious help (or for an Easter miracle)
F
Il giorno 21/apr/2011, alle ore 12.37, Andrew Kirkby ha scritto:
> Fernando,
>
> Check that you have the right supply voltages at the points at the
> board (where you installed the decoupling caps) and check continuity
> from point to point for each wire attached to those boards (Fluke on
> "beep" mode :P )
>
> Let me know how you go.
>
> AK
> On 21/04/2011, at 8:30 PM, Fernando Zarone wrote:
>
> > Probably, it could be.
> > But I checked the solder points, refreshed them... seem ok.
> > Moreover: could a broken wire "lock" the output (pin 3) of 4051s ?
> > shouldn't it be an internal processing, between the inputs (other IC
> > pins) and pin 3?
> >
> >
> >
> > Il giorno 21/apr/2011, alle ore 11.32, Quazimodo ha scritto:
> >
> >> If you've been working on the TSB and/or TKC boards then I would
> >> suspect broken wires...!?!
> >>
> >> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Zarone
> >> <fernandozarone@...> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thank you Mike.
> >>> Some progress has been done.
> >>> I replaced all of the 1uF electro caps and all of the tantalium
> >>> ones (the latter with polystyrene ones) in the TSB1 and 2.
> >>> Decoupling caps were added to all of the CMOS ICs.
> >>> The problem is still there: last octave (from C5# to C6) exhibit a
> >>> working AT, the others no.
> >>> News: I checked all of the voltages from the AT sensors of the
> >>> keys, all of them are present at the single input pins of the
> >>> 4051's corresponding to the single keys, I mean the stronger I
> >>> press the key, the higher the voltage comes out, e.g. at the pin 2
> >>> of IC5 /TSB2 when I press C6, pin 5 when B5 etc. This means that
> >>> the problem is not before the 4051s. When I check at the sum
> >>> terminal (pin 3 of the 4051s) , the voltage is OK in the last 2
> >>> (IC 4 and 5 of TSB2), corresponding to the WORKING last octave)
> >>> but it's missing at the other IC's pins 3, as expected.
> >>> I thought: the ICs are faulty. No, in that in the TSB2 I swapped
> >>> IC 3 with the IC5 (working): the same - last octave keys / IC4 and
> >>> IC5 = AT OK, the others no. This means that it cannot be blamed to
> >>> faulty ICs!
> >>> I would like to understand whether the fault is in both TSBs
> >>> (except at the level of the last two ICs of TSB2 - not that
> >>> likely...) or somewhere outside, locking these voltages in both
> >>> boards...
> >>>
> >>> I think this is an important clue.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Il giorno 20/apr/2011, alle ore 23.34, Mike ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>> I don't understand your question and can't help you until you
> >>>> tell me which pins you checked. What pin on the 4051 on the TSB
> >>>> boards did you check? I wouldn't even bother trying to
> >>>> troubleshoot the aftertouch and velocity unless it was working OK
> >>>> before you replaced the 1uf Caps on the TSB1 &TSB2 boards.
> >>>>
> >>>> It could be a lot of things. I would start by checking Pin 3 of
> >>>> the 4051 on the TSB1 & TSB2 boards. Each 4051 on the TSB1 & TSB2
> >>>> boards is responsible for the the aftertouch and velocity for a
> >>>> group of notes on the keyboard. Pin three of each 4051 will sum
> >>>> the output of whatever notes are playing that the 4051 is
> >>>> responsible for. Try playing one note at a time corresponding to
> >>>> each of the 4051's and press down to engage the aftertouch. You
> >>>> will see the aftertouch voltage for the corresponding note if the
> >>>> 4051 is working properly and the N1, N2, N3 lines are working
> >>>> properly for the entire keyboard.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> --- In yamahacs80@yahoogroups.com, Fernando Zarone
> >>>> <fernandozarone@> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I replaced ALL of the ICs in the KAS, TKC, SH and ALL of the
> >>>>> electrolytic 1uF caps in TSBs. Going to replace the tantalium
> >>>>> with polystyrene ones.
> >>>>> The Aftertouch and Initial touch only work in the last octave
> >>>>> from C5# to C6 . Backwards from C5 to C1, nothing.
> >>>>> On the 4051 pins after the key pressure the relative tension
> >>>>> raises from 0 - -0,20 to 6 and more, so it should not be a
> >>>>> matter of keyboard sensors.
> >>>>> Could you please indicate how and where to check, considering
> >>>>> that it seems to be a "global" problem. Any specific test? Which
> >>>>> boards could be involved?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any help strongly appreciated...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> F
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Caro Max,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> dopo una delle ultime mie performances (sto sostituendo tutti i
> >>>>>> capacitors e ICs e tirando fuori schede) l'AT e initial touch,
> >>>>>> con tutte le loro funzioni di pilotaggio, non vanno per nulla
> >>>>>> se non nell'ultima ottava, da C5# a C6.
> >>>>>> da C5 in gi�, nulla. Inoltre se senti, per es. i Brass, mi
> >>>>>> sembra di non sentire l'attack lento. Insomma, ci risiamo.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mi dai qualche idea sulle tensioni da verificare? devo ancora
> >>>>>> sostituire molti tantalio (con poliestere) nelle TSB, ma non
> >>>>>> credo che la causa siano loro. Si rompevano tutti, in entrambi
> >>>>>> i canali? deve essere a monte il problema! Le tensioni dell'AT
> >>>>>> dai tasti arrivano ai 4051, da -0,20 a 6V e pi� sui piedini, il
> >>>>>> che significa che ... Che significa???
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Aiutami, Max, altrimenti spender� una cifra per spedirla da RL
> >>>>>> in England da Mr CS80 per farla rimettere a nuovo!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Grazie, so che lo farai...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> PS mica sei un tecnico? se no te la mandavo subito :-))
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Andrew Kirkby
> (e) kirkbyte@...
> (m) 0416 000 070
>
>
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