Hi Chris,
Very interesting project! I hope it will succeed.
I’m not that familiar with gofundme.com. How does that work, is there an end date for the fundraiser? I could not see one. I see it’s already running for three months. From the looks of it, it could use some more publicity. Have you posted on all the usual forums and sites like muffwiggler.com, matrixsynth, etc?
Kind regards,
Ben
> On 24 Nov 2015, at 08:52, Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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> Mark - Thanks I appreciate your support. Yes, it's going to be time consuming and expensive.
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> I'm guessing you're referring to the Birotron choir that Martin at Streetly edited.
> Yes, that's a great sound.
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> That's a different sound source than the 8 tracks. That comes from a 1/4" master tape that Streetly held on to which came from the set of master tapes in storage. The Birotronics director sent all the tapes to Streetly briefly in the early 2000's but it was discovered they all needed baking, so nothing was ever done with them.
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> I think that might be one of four different choir sounds.
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> There's also a small sound library for the 'Pepperidge Farm' funded Birotron model in the 80's that was also never heard or released.
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> On Tue, Nov 24, 2015 at 1:36 AM, Mark Pring markpringnz@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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> Thanks Chris, that was even more fascinating! I quite like the Birotron choir sounds on M-tron Pro, of course I've never heard the real thing. I hope you are successful with your project, I assume from what you have said so far that at worst you will manage the sampling. I can only imagine how much time money and patience one will need to get a proper working Birotron with new tapes. Please keep us all informed of your progress.
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> Cheers
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> Mark
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> From: "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2015 6:57 PM
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> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Faces in our setting sun
>
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> "Hi Chris,
>
> That was fascinating. My knowledge of the sound of the Birotron is limited to the samples in M-tron pro. Did you consider approaching GForce software? It sounds like the sort of thing they would be interested in, perhaps releasing it as an extension pack. I also wondered if a crowdfunded approach to releasing the samples might work better as well. Good luck. Mark"
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> Hi Mark,
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> Thanks for your advice.
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> I have considered approaching G Force, and would be willing to work with them or any other company in doing a professional job of this. But in the case of G Force, there's a serious legal issue of the Birotron owner not being compensated for the samples, and not being told about his Birotron being sampled - a potential ugly mess, which I have no interest in becoming involved with, considering he's somewhat wealthy and/or still has many wealthy and powerful friends. So if I were involved with them, there would probably have to be a contract legally isolating me from that incident, including any culpability from them and any other companies involved in the illegalities. I'm happy to work with anyone, but whomever it is, it's going to have to be legitimate all the way.
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> Regardless of that situation, the Birotron samples in MTron and MTron Pro are really for completists. I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but they do not resemble a Birotron at all, because the 8 track tapes were already worn out, and they were sampled at the wrong speeds.
> And I'm not saying this to garner interest in my own project.
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> There's a 10 turn pitch knob on the Birotron (based upon the Double Mellotron pitch knob - you can hear the sped up effect on Topographic Oceans) that allows for Birotron sounds to be set at different speeds, and played back at the speeds they were originally recorded at, and I don't think the guys really knew what they were doing. There's also missing notes that were digitally 'created'. I've had experience with 3 different Birotrons and sections from 3 different tape sets to know this.
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> To be fair, in their defense, they had no 'authorized' sources to help them, and no real information about the sounds or the instrument. This was back in 1999 or 2000. So the samples are useful as sonic material in their own way, but not at all as Birotron sounds. The guys do seem like nice guys in their videos though and I believe they meant well. And I'd hope they wouldn't lose their shirts over the faulty samples.
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> As far as crowdfunding goes, that's sort of what we're doing already. The more support there is, the further things can go. I believe in a 'shared fate' approach. We either win together or we lose together.
> I can't offer sounds, but I am offering my own artwork as 'rewards' for donations.
> There is progress, but I'd like to see things move a bit faster. None of us are getting any younger.
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> (except maybe Jack Younger :) Is he still with us on the list?)
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> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 7:21 PM, Mark Pring markpringnz@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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> Hi Chris,
>
> That was fascinating. My knowledge of the sound of the Birotron is limited to the samples in M-tron pro. Did you consider approaching GForce software? It sounds like the sort of thing they would be interested in, perhaps releasing it as an extension pack. I also wondered if a crowdfunded approach to releasing the samples might work better as well.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> Mark
>
> From: "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com>
> To: newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, 24 November 2015 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Re: Faces in our setting sun
>
>
> Well this might interest some of you.
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> Some of you know about this already and some don't.
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> When I first became involved with fixing the Double Mellotron that belonged to Rick Wakeman / Yes, I had to acquire all kinds of help from people who had been involved with the instrument back in the 70's.
> This was mainly because the electronics and design had been altered.
> Some of these people were also involved with the making of the Birotron and this led to eventually meeting Wakeman (again) and working on restoring bits of the Birotron - old cartridge tapes, an unfinished prototype etc.
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> The basic idea was just to give it some presence and not let it disappear completely into oblivion.
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> While I was going down this path, I was eventually able to encounter and subsequently acquire not just a Birotron but also the master tape library, which unfortunately cannot be played without the tapes first being heat treated to dry them out.
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> I've privately received a lot of interest outside our respective 'mellotron groups' from people all over the world who would like to have the Birotron sounds and be able to use them. I suspect some of these are people who wanted a Birotron back in the 70's and never received one. But most are definitely younger people looking for sounds that are new. The Birotron sounds have gone unheard and unplayed for about 40 years.
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> Since it's literally impossible for people to play a Birotron these days, the next best thing (the only thing actually) is to archive these sounds digitally, make new 8 track replacement tapes from the master tapes, and find a format to make the sounds eventually available to others - either some kind of sample library or virtual instrument.
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> So I started a fundraising page for an entire Birotron 'resuscitation' project (sound preservation/archive/museum display/promotional concert/restoration of surviving Birotron units)
> with the funds first going to save the sound library from rotting away permanently which is what is happening as I write this.
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> Although the tapes are kept in a temperature controlled environment, the type of mould on the tapes likely comes from the climates of several countries they've been through, and can only be slowed down - not halted. The mould is also toxic and I'm not able to ship these to a preservation facility in the USA without taking on undue risk, or incurring ridiculous expenses or paperwork.
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> I've contacted specialists here in Canada who've advised putting the tapes in a sealed room and then using a special ozone dispensing machine so that ozone can be pumped in, whilst driving all the oxygen out and starving/killing off the mould for a minimum 24 hour period.
> This is a great idea except that we don't know what interactions or effects the ozone has chemically on the playability of the 40 year old tapes.
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> Which brings us back to square one - which is simply baking the tapes and recording them diligently within a 24 hour period, using a professional studio to digitally preserve them, and then editing the sounds for usability in software.
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> The features and drawbacks of the Birotron have been discussed on and off our list, (as have the Mellotron and Chamberlin) but since there are now only 2 complete and fully functioning machines left, in my opinion, what only matters now is just saving the sounds for posterity.
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> The original Birotron 8 track tapes have not been a viable sound source since about 1983, as the tapes were constantly going around and were designed for only 100 hours of use, and were already worn out back then because the bands that had them never received replacements - including Wakeman.
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> So the master tapes are the only viable sound source and the question now is whether you'd want the option of having Birotron sounds in the future, or whether these sounds should disappear forever.
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> Anyway if you're interested in this, please go to https://www.gofundme.com/birotron and make a donation to help preserve the master tapes. There is a documentary video that explains everything and has been fact checked / error-checked by the Birotronics people who were both there and directly involved at that time.
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> The more support / donations we receive, the cheaper and more affordable the sounds would be. The less we receive the more astronomically expensive these would be. The latter is not what I want to see happen.
> The worst case scenario is that only a few of the sounds can be preserved.
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> I've been in touch with the surviving people directly involved with the making of the Birotron master tapes, and they've assured me that no expense was spared in recording the sounds, so something worthwhile will come from the tapes.
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> Anyway, see what you think, and make up your own mind:
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> https://www.gofundme.com/birotron
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> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:43 AM, jfranmac@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
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> This group got quiet while i was away from it, so i'm not sure why it did. There was a bit more humour and ribbing back then. I only value this group as a place to discuss Real mellotrons. Anything else is just digital synthery. You can get that anywhere. I do like that others share music though. Maybe soundcloud or reverbnation is best for that though. Or youtube.btw- i currently do not own a mellotron. When i do get "upstairs" to write, i use Redtron vst. (As a placeholder for when i get another 'tron:)
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