Archive of the former Yahoo!Groups mailing list: The Mellotron Group

previous by date index next by date
previous in topic topic list next in topic

Subject: Re: [newmellotrongroup] Mellotron

From: Chris Dale <unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com>
Date: 2014-07-01

The Chamberlin slowly becomes easy to distinguish from the Mellotron after you play it or hear the sounds for a long time.

One of the best Chamberlin albums is 'Journey Through A Thousand Meditations' by educator Edmond S Bordeaux.
It's tribal meditation music but it's probably the most clear recorded example of the Chamberlin and the various sounds it can produce.
And you can hear everything up close and unfettered. 

For hard rock with lots of great Chamberlin sounds, pitch bends and atmospheres, there's no beating Neil Merryweather's Space Rangers album. Both great guitar and Chamberlin work. They must have spent time really getting to know the instrument.

As far as Sparklehorse is concerned, sadly it's all fake. I doubt Mark Linkous ever had access to a real Tron or Chamberlin (especially outside of Canada or the USA in 2000/2001)  I'm rather doubtful about the Optigan/Orchestron stuff either (unless someone else knows otherwise).

I liked Sparklehorses' "It's A Wonderful Life", though when it came to the Tron / Chamberlin sounds, it didn't sound quite 'dynamic' to me. Though the songs were great.

Here's a weird story: Several other 'music education' people bought that Sparklehorse CD and other Tron CDs. These guys were going to music conventions and stores and spending huge money, collecting all the 'Tron' albums since the 60's and up for their school / department libraries. The idea was anyone who wanted to learn about the sounds of Mellotron and Chamberlin would have a reference point, much the way old classical music records can be grouped by French Horn, Viola etc. 

Well it turns out, the producer of the Sparklehorse album; David Fridmann,  used all samples but insisted on crediting it as real Mellotron, Chamberlin etc. I had this confirmed by a friend who hired Fridmann to produce his own album in New York and the same scam in the credits was done. He does this with everything he produces and they were laughing about it.  I asked 'Why?'  and was told basically  'Because through the internet these types of  guys knew people were out there buying 'Tron albums' at the time and he wanted to cash in at their expense.  
So basically anything with Tron produced by him (Mercury Rev etc. ) is fake.
I was told he arrogantly thinks people are too stupid to tell the difference. 
But the truth is you can tell fairly easily when you own the real instruments and things don't sound quite right.

Finding this out really spoiled Sparklehorse and several other albums for me, and I and all the other people who bought these so-called Tron CDs for the 'libraries' eventually returned them to the stores and got our money back. This also happened with a ton of other post 2000 'Tron' albums claiming Mellotron or Chamberlin etc. when there wasn't any on there. 
In my country, misleading or false info on a label of any kind is considered serious fraud, and there are laws in place against it. Consequently this also hindered the sales / distribution of my friends album as well. 

Much later, the 'Planet Mellotron' website confirmed what was gradually discovered about all these albums.

Here's the entry for Sparklehorse: http://www.planetmellotron.com/revs15.htm#horse
and Mercury Rev: http://www.planetmellotron.com/samm2.htm#rev
 
(Honours to Andy Thompson for building such a remarkable site).

Anyway I think using digital samples is fine. Ultimately it's about whether one likes the music and thinks it's any good or not. 
But I have to agree with the 'music staff' on this. 
In no way do I like being screwed with when I'm spending good money for 'Tron' albums and want to believe in the band or artist as a fan. You can't enjoy the music as much when you feel ripped off and lied to. I'd rather see honest album credits that allow me to believe in the integrity of the bands art. If the music is good, and takes you somewhere, then you'd certainly want to read the truth about it.  

I guess this is like buying what you think is 'real chocolate' for Valentines Day, only to discover it's fake and she's having a painful allergic reaction, and you're not going to get any! :)






 


 

 

I read the liner notes and it indeed is a Chamberlain on Twilight. I'm not sure about Sparklehorse either. In the documentary "Mark Linkous is Sparklehorse", I saw him use mostly old beaten down analog stuff, so I can hardly believe that he would use samples, but indeed it could be the case.

What sort of music do you guys play on the Mellotron? 


On Tue, Jul 1, 2014 at 6:04 AM, Otis Vroon otisvroon@icloud.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

I read the liner notes and it indeed is a Chamberlain on Twilight. I'm not sure about Sparklehorse either. In the documentary "Mark Linkous is Sparklehorse", I saw him use mostly old beaten down analog stuff, so I can hardly believe that he would use samples, but indeed it could be the case.

What sort of music do you guys play on the Mellotron? 





On 1 jul. 2014, at 06:17, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I believe that's actually a Chamberlin on Elliot Smith's work.

The Chamberlin is very similar to the Mellotron but has a different library of sounds (except for the violin sound which is the same because it originated with the Chamberlin library).

I think the Sparklehorse stuff is mostly samples - probably the Mellotron CD ROM.


On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Otis Vroon otisvroon@icloud.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Has any of you guys heard the Mellotron played by Jon Brion on Elliott Smith's songs "twilight" and on "everything means nothing to me"? That along with some of Mellotron parts on the Sparklehorse albums made me fall in love with it.

It took me years before I found out what instrument it is. 

Thanks for the welcome and I'm looking forward to future posts.




On 1 jul. 2014, at 00:17, "Hammonddave hammonddave2004@yahoo.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Except that we don't allow guitar players here!

(Just kidding.... Welcome!)

David

On Jun 30, 2014, at 1:33 PM, "Chris Dale unobtainiumkeys@gmail.com [newmellotrongroup]" <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Welcome Otis,


I'm sorry that you had to have that as an introduction to our group.
Tony is right. 

We all love the Mellotron sound, but we have different musical needs / requirements / ways of attaining it, and we're all from different walks of life.

There's users of both Mellotrons and digital emulations here and our group is probably  helpful resource because of that.


You'll have good quality help from people here. If one of us doesn't know the answer, someone else will probably have it.


Chris 











On Mon, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Tony Moffett atm655@verizon.net [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
 

Welcome Otis!


This wasn’t a normal situation for we members.
This “guy” came out swinging and that usually doesn’t go over well here.

There is plenty of help here with Mellotron issues, fixes etc.
I hope you enjoy the group!

Tony M400 and M4000

On Jun 30, 2014, at 3:04 PM, Otis Vroon otisvroon@icloud.com [newmellotrongroup] <newmellotrongroup@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


Hello everyone, My name is Otis and I'm new to this forum. Since last week I own a Mellotron m4000d and I'm completely over the moon with it. It will be nice to learn more about Mellotrons. I hope that I can get a real one in the future. 
Right away I see there's some heated discussion, but I never understood why people think a real Mellotron is too expensive for what is, or why it would be ridiculous to own one, or buy one for a lot of money. People easily pay more for a new kitchen or a car and somehow, in situations like that, I never hear people freak out about it (i would).
In the end it is just about what you like to do and what makes you happy. I like instruments and dislike computers somewhat. As a guitar player I don't feel like sitting behind my pc and play music that way. Old-fashioned point of view for a 31-one-year-old I guess haha. 





On 30 jun. 2014, at 20:51, markpringnz <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

I'm surprised that the samples, digital vs electromechanical issue can still generate such interest and emotion. I think they all have their uses and depend on pretty much on how much time and money one has and what sort of sound one is after.

There is something different in playing a mellotron as opposed to playing samples if nothing else the feel of the keyboard is unique! I do understand now why people want the real thing.

On a piece I was recording recently I couldn't be bothered setting up my mellotron, I just wanted a few bars of the 8 choir for a little musical idea, I went to M-Tron pro and the Streetly expansion pack but the sound was out of tune in a way which didn't work for me. I started up Redtron and that was the sound I wanted that time.

Please don't think that I don't like the Streetly expansion pack, I am very happy with it but I don't think the samples are tuned which makes it sound authentic but that isn't always what I want. One of my favourite mellotron sounds at the moment is the string tape sound of my MicroKorg xl+ and I'm not sure how close those samples are to any mellotron.

I'm not sure why anyone would want to leave the group over this, the original post does sound a bit like trolling although he had been a member for a while. Possibly his mellotron had been playing up, like mine it probably needs a rebuild,  I can understand that kind of frustration!

Mark