Vintage Synth Repair

H-100
My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
manually. 
I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low signal 
is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. Like 
I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong final 
stage.

The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the keys...that is 
that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had the same 
symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time to time on 
those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine returns when 
I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 20 or so 
times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and this will 
help...at least it is worth a try.
As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to 
fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge, especially 
on the lower manual.
The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that swings on an 
arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a flexible "finger" 
under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes that rod away 
from the finger, and releases the preset key.
When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is probably worn 
or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent slightly to 
restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to be removed.
If you have never done this, please let me know and I can walk you 
through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the process, please 
let me know as I  have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop and would 
be glad to donate what I can.
Bob


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> 
wrote:
>
> H-100
> My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
> manually. 
> I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low signal 
> is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. 
Like 
> I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong 
final 
> stage.
>

Without doubt one of the worst things to do with any keyboard is to use WD40
on it.  It is intended to be used on motor vehicles, around the ignition for
instance.  You can do untold damage with WD40 - we see this with clocks
regularly and when one comes in for repair we double the service charge.
 
Recently I had a church organ to repair where the transpose keys and the
preset tone keys had jammed up all due to the use of WD40 in the past.
 
So having said this, what should you use?  The answer is simple use
something designed to be used on electronic equipment, Electrolube, also
known as contact cleaner.  I don't know what the name is in the USA but I'm
sure you have similar products.
 
Regards
Brian G3OYU
www.g3oyu.co.uk
 
  _____  

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of timothy kosiorek
Sent: Sunday, 06 April 2008 18:54
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
 
I see this problem with a lot of Hammonds and I usually try to cure it
without taking anything apart,the grease on the mechanism gets thick with
age and keeps the bars under the keys from moving,the way I fix it is by
squirting WD-40 beside the keys and pushing them up and down,use the little
hose that comes with the WD-40 so you can shoot it all around the keys,the
sticking mechanism is in the frontal part of the key,the WD-40 mixes with
the grease and loosens it up,once you get the lock down bar to move go back
and forth between the cancel key and the various preset keys,the volume
should also return by rapidly moving the keys up and down because it usually
is caused by dirty key contacts and the movement will clean the
contacts,I've been fixing Hammonds this way for 30 years.only after trying
this do I rarely have to get under the keys,if you have to get under them it
is a bit of a project but only takes about an hour.
Regards 
Tim K.


direct link to my Ebay store. 
http://www.sonicele <http://www.sonicelectronicmusic.com/> ctronicmusic.com


> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> From: fsimon001@...
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 14:34:27 +0000
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
> 
> H-100
> My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
> manually. 
> I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low signal 
> is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. Like 
> I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong final 
> stage.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
 



E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)
Database version: 5.09560
http://www.pctools.com/Spyware-Doctor/

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008 11:12 AM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008 11:12 AM

I agree that the use of WD-40 is a very bas idea. WD-40 is a great 
product, but it has it's place...that place is not inside a Hammond.

IMHO, any kind of spray between the keys may fix things temporarily, 
but you will be taking the keys apart in the future to make it right, 
as I can't see that the spray will reach areas where it is needed, as 
well as the fact that a mechanism of this nature needs to be 
regreased. I would also worry that runoff from any spray and the 
grease residue would work it's way into the key contacts which are 
just below this mechanism, and not sealed very well. This would not 
be good at all.

I just took some pictures of this mechanism, and will post them on my 
Flickr site. Perhaps this will give those of you who have never seen 
this mechanism a better idea of what is involved.

Just a note; it was mentioned in one response that taking this apart 
and cleaning it would be an hour's job...perhaps for someone who has 
done it before, and has the tools and knowledge at their 
disposal...for someone who has never seen the insides of their organ, 
I would plan to spend several hours and perhaps a few beers on the 
job.

Bob


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
<fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> H-100
> My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
> manually. 
> I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low 
signal 
> is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. 
Like 
> I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong 
final 
> stage.
>

On Sunday 06 April 2008 15:02, Bob wrote:
> I agree that the use of WD-40 is a very bas idea. WD-40 is a great
> product, but it has it's place...that place is not inside a Hammond.

Absolutely!

> IMHO, any kind of spray between the keys may fix things temporarily,
> but you will be taking the keys apart in the future to make it right,
> as I can't see that the spray will reach areas where it is needed, as
> well as the fact that a mechanism of this nature needs to be
> regreased. I would also worry that runoff from any spray and the
> grease residue would work it's way into the key contacts which are
> just below this mechanism, and not sealed very well. This would not
> be good at all.
>
> I just took some pictures of this mechanism, and will post them on my
> Flickr site. Perhaps this will give those of you who have never seen
> this mechanism a better idea of what is involved.
>
> Just a note; it was mentioned in one response that taking this apart
> and cleaning it would be an hour's job...perhaps for someone who has
> done it before, and has the tools and knowledge at their
> disposal...for someone who has never seen the insides of their organ,
> I would plan to spend several hours and perhaps a few beers on the
> job.

Wouldn't that be better as "a few beers _after_ the job"?  :-)

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

On Sunday 06 April 2008 15:01, timothy kosiorek wrote:
> Hello:I've used this only on Hammond preset keys and not on key contacts
> and I've used it for 30 years without any problems,

I guess you've been lucky,  then.  (I've worked on Hammonds a bit longer, 
started in 1975 :-)

> if you take the preset keys section apart the contacts are sealed up so the
> WD-40 does not get on them,The purpose that WD-40 was made for is to mix
> with other lubricants to thin them down,

"WD" stands for "Water Displacement".  It's made of two components:  Kerosene,  
which evaporates,  and why it makes a lousy lubricant,  and "petroleum 
distillates",  which leave a gummy residue and which will cause all sorts of 
problems when used in electronics equipment.

> Hammond uses grease on the preset mechanism that dries out and turns to a
> very sticky paste,any contact cleaner would completely remove the lubricant
> and cause the presets to lock up,

Then if it needs to be degreased and re-greased it should be.

> I would never use  WD-40 on anything else,but this is a mechanical problem
> on metal to metal parts not an electrical problem.

I'd still use something else in there.

> I work on a dozen Hammonds a month mostly in Churchs and I don't get
> callbacks but do get return business from my customers for other problems
> not related to my repairs,for electrical contact problems 

Where are you doing this kind of business?  I've done organ repair both around 
the NYC area (along with 2 or three other guys I shared that task with) and 
in South Central PA and covering 12 counties never saw that many Hammonds a 
month,  and after a while not even that many organs.  I don't think people 
around here are fixing them much,  and haven't been for the past 10-15 years 
at least,  which is a damn shame but that's the situation here.

> I use Caig De-oxit which is recommended by most manufacturers tech
> departments.

I've heard lots of good things about that stuff as well.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

For those of you interested, I posted a couple pictures of this 
mechanism on my Flickr site:
http://flickr.com/photos/korkeesdad/
Perhaps this will help those of you who have not seen what this looks 
like an idea of what is being discussed.

Bob





--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
<fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> H-100
> My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
> manually. 
> I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low 
signal 
> is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. 
Like 
> I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong 
final 
> stage.
>

Bob,
Thanks. I'm certain I need to take it apart and fix it properly. Your 
picures gave me great insite of the mechanics. Does it disassemble 
from the front or start at the top and work down? 

Also the very low volume I'm assuming is unrelated because I can hold 
the preset keys down to hear the organ. As I said the finals are 
good. Where would you recommend I start scoping the audio signal.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@...> wrote:
>
> The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the keys...that 
is 
> that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had the 
same 
> symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time to 
time on 
> those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine returns 
when 
> I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 20 or 
so 
> times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and this will 
> help...at least it is worth a try.
> As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to 
> fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge, 
especially 
> on the lower manual.
> The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that swings 
on an 
> arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a 
flexible "finger" 
> under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes that rod 
away 
> from the finger, and releases the preset key.
> When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is probably 
worn 
> or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent slightly 
to 
> restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
> I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
> In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to be 
removed.
> If you have never done this, please let me know and I can walk you 
> through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the process, 
please 
> let me know as I  have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop and 
would 
> be glad to donate what I can.
> Bob
> 
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > H-100
> > My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> > underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them 
down 
> > manually. 
> > I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low 
signal 
> > is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-
amp. 

> Like 
> > I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong 
> final 
> > stage.
> >
>

You are, of course, correct.
My point is that someone who did not know any better could make a mess 
of things...I can just see someone emptying a 16 ounce can of degreaser 
everywhere under the keys...not knowing exactly where it is really 
needed...the results would not be pretty. This stuff tends to wick into 
the most unexpected of places.
Bob


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, timothy kosiorek 
<tkosiorek@...> wrote:
>
> 
> If you notice the key contacts are way in the back of the key away 
from the trough were I suggested spraying the lube.
> Tim K.
>

Bob,
I think I can see where Tim is coming from on the movement of the 
bar. Your photos really helped. It appears you would need to spray 
the ends where the bushings are and not necessarily the bar itself.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@...> wrote:
>
> You are, of course, correct.
> My point is that someone who did not know any better could make a 
mess 
> of things...I can just see someone emptying a 16 ounce can of 
degreaser 
> everywhere under the keys...not knowing exactly where it is really 
> needed...the results would not be pretty. This stuff tends to wick 
into 
> the most unexpected of places.
> Bob
> 
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, timothy kosiorek 
> <tkosiorek@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > If you notice the key contacts are way in the back of the key 
away 

> from the trough were I suggested spraying the lube.
> > Tim K.
> >
>

Bob,
I think I can see where Tim is coming from on the movement of the 
bar. Your photos really helped. It appears you would need to spray 
the ends where the bushings are and not necessarily the bar itself.

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@...> wrote:
>
> You are, of course, correct.
> My point is that someone who did not know any better could make a 
mess 
> of things...I can just see someone emptying a 16 ounce can of 
degreaser 
> everywhere under the keys...not knowing exactly where it is really 
> needed...the results would not be pretty. This stuff tends to wick 
into 
> the most unexpected of places.
> Bob
> 
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, timothy kosiorek 
> <tkosiorek@> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > If you notice the key contacts are way in the back of the key 
away 

> from the trough were I suggested spraying the lube.
> > Tim K.
> >
>

Tim,
I now see the mechanics of the preset keys. I was curious of the 
comment of the contacts for my volume problem. I can hold the preset 
key down even though it won't lock and all presets give the same low 
volume. That is why I was thinking it had to be something else. But 
are you saying you have seen the low volume with preset contacts 
before? I'm assuming I would have to dissassemble to spray them 
contants. 

So you live in Ohio? I live in Wadsworth, west of Akron.
Frank

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, timothy kosiorek 
<tkosiorek@...> wrote:
>
> 
> I see this problem with a lot of Hammonds and I usually try to cure 
it without taking anything apart,the grease on the mechanism gets 
thick with age and keeps the bars under the keys from moving,the way 
I fix it is by squirting WD-40 beside the keys and pushing them up 
and down,use the little hose that comes with the WD-40 so you can 
shoot it all around the keys,the sticking mechanism is in the frontal 
part of the key,the WD-40 mixes with the grease and loosens it 
up,once you get the lock down bar to move go back and forth between 
the cancel key and the various preset keys,the volume should also 
return by rapidly moving the keys up and down because it usually is 
caused by dirty key contacts and the movement will clean the 
contacts,I've been fixing Hammonds this way for 30 years.only after 
trying this do I rarely have to get under the keys,if you have to get 
under them it is a bit of a project but only takes about an hour.

> Regards 
> Tim K.
>

On Sunday 06 April 2008 18:57, Frank Simon wrote:
> One time when I first started messing with the presets it came on full
> volume only for a very short time as if something intermittent happened but
> has never happened again.

That strongly suggests that the trouble is in that area,  to me.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

Wrong old son!  ALL clocks are oiled with special clock oil, similarly
watches are also oiled with special watch oil.  You never ever run a clock
dry it will ruin the pivot and the bush.
 
Regards
Brian G3OYU
www.g3oyu.co.uk
 
  _____  

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of timothy kosiorek
Sent: Sunday, 06 April 2008 20:02
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
 
Hello:I've used this only on Hammond preset keys and not on key contacts and
I've used it for 30 years without any problems,if you take the preset keys
section apart the contacts are sealed up so the WD-40 does not get on
them,The purpose that WD-40 was made for is to mix with other lubricants to
thin them down,Hammond uses grease on the preset mechanism that dries out
and turns to a very sticky paste,any contact cleaner would completely remove
the lubricant and cause the presets to lock up,I would never use WD-40 on
anything else,but this is a mechanical problem on metal to metal parts not
an electrical problem.I work on a dozen Hammonds a month mostly in Churchs
and I don't get callbacks but do get return business from my customers for
other problems not related to my repairs,for electrical contact problems I
use Caig De-oxit which is recommended by most manufacturers tech
departments.I understand not using WD on clocks,most clocks are designed to
have dry contact and not have lubricant which can cause the parts to stick
together.
 
Tim K.


direct link to my Ebay store. 
http://www.sonicele <http://www.sonicelectronicmusic.com/> ctronicmusic.com
 

  _____  

To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
From: brian@...
Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:02:56 +0100
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
Without doubt one of the worst things to do with any keyboard is to use WD40
on it.  It is intended to be used on motor vehicles, around the ignition for
instance.  You can do untold damage with WD40 - we see this with clocks
regularly and when one comes in for repair we double the service charge.
 
Recently I had a church organ to repair where the transpose keys and the
preset tone keys had jammed up all due to the use of WD40 in the past.
 
So having said this, what should you use?  The answer is simple use
something designed to be used on electronic equipment, Electrolube, also
known as contact cleaner.  I don't know what the name is in the USA but I'm
sure you have similar products.
 
Regards
Brian G3OYU
www.g3oyu.co. <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk/> uk
 

  _____  

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of timothy kosiorek
Sent: Sunday, 06 April 2008 18:54
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups..com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
 
I see this problem with a lot of Hammonds and I usually try to cure it
without taking anything apart,the grease on the mechanism gets thick with
age and keeps the bars under the keys from moving,the way I fix it is by
squirting WD-40 beside the keys and pushing them up and down,use the little
hose that comes with the WD-40 so you can shoot it all around the keys,the
sticking mechanism is in the frontal part of the key,the WD-40 mixes with
the grease and loosens it up,once you get the lock down bar to move go back
and forth between the cancel key and the various preset keys,the volume
should also return by rapidly moving the keys up and down because it usually
is caused by dirty key contacts and the movement will clean the
contacts,I've been fixing Hammonds this way for 30 years.only after trying
this do I rarely have to get under the keys,if you have to get under them it
is a bit of a project but only takes about an hour.
Regards 
Tim K.
direct link to my Ebay store. 
http://www.sonicele <http://www.sonicelectronicmusic.com/> ctronicmusic.com


> To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
> From: fsimon001@...
> Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 14:34:27 +0000
> Subject: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
> 
> H-100
> My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to get 
> underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them down 
> manually. 
> I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low signal 
> is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-amp. Like 
> I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have strong final 
> stage.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 



E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)
Database version: 5.09560
http://www.pctools. <http://www.pctools.com/Spyware-Doctor/>
com/Spyware-Doctor/
 



E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)
Database version: 5.09560
http://www.pctools.com/Spyware-Doctor/

The specific product I use is Servisol Contact Cleaner.
 
Regards
Brian G3OYU
www.g3oyu.co.uk
 
  _____  

From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mtcasino
Sent: Sunday, 06 April 2008 19:35
To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
 
It looks like Electrolube has a number of products. Witch one do you use?
 
http://www.electrol <http://www.electrolube.com/docs/bcontact.html>
ube.com/docs/bcontact.html
 
Mike
 
<snip>
  The answer is simple use something designed to be used on electronic
equipment, Electrolube, also known as contact cleaner.  I don't know what
the name is in the USA but I'm sure you have similar products.Regards  Brian
G3OYU www.g3oyu.co. <http://www.g3oyu.co.uk> uk 
 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008
11:12 AM
 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1362 - Release Date: 4/6/2008
11:12 AM
 



E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)
Database version: 5.09560
http://www.pctools.com/Spyware-Doctor/

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 8:56 AM

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG.
Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.8/1363 - Release Date: 4/7/2008 8:56 AM

To: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com

It has to be taken apart from the top and the front, actually.
The keys are screwed in from the back, but the key has to be slid 
back to disengage it from the key comb. The black panel on the front 
has to be removed to slide the key back.
What is your time frame for doing this? I was planning to repair a 
couple keys on one of the H's in the shop this weekend...I planned to 
photograph the process for my picture collection, if this would help 
you.

Bob


- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...> 
wrote:
>
> Bob,
> Thanks. I'm certain I need to take it apart and fix it properly. 
Your 
> picures gave me great insite of the mechanics. Does it disassemble 
> from the front or start at the top and work down? 
> 
> Also the very low volume I'm assuming is unrelated because I can 
hold 
> the preset keys down to hear the organ. As I said the finals are 
> good. Where would you recommend I start scoping the audio signal.
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@> wrote:
> >
> > The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the 
keys...that 
> is 
> > that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had the 
> same 
> > symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time to 
> time on 
> > those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine 
returns 
> when 
> > I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 20 
or 
> so 
> > times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and this 
will 
> > help...at least it is worth a try.
> > As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to 
> > fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge, 
> especially 
> > on the lower manual.
> > The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that swings 
> on an 
> > arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a 
> flexible "finger" 
> > under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes that 
rod 
> away 
> > from the finger, and releases the preset key.
> > When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is 
probably 
> worn 
> > or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent 
slightly 
> to 
> > restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
> > I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
> > In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to be 
> removed.
> > If you have never done this, please let me know and I can walk 
you 
> > through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the process, 
> please 
> > let me know as I  have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop and 
> would 
> > be glad to donate what I can.
> > Bob
> > 
> > 
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
<fsimon001@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > H-100
> > > My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to 
get 
> > > underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them 
> down 
> > > manually. 
> > > I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low 
> signal 
> > > is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-
> amp. 
> > Like 
> > > I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have 
strong 

> > final 
> > > stage.
> > >
> >
>

Wow!  I've been waiting for someone with an H1xx series to do this.  I  
need to get into mine's upper end, I have a tab or two that are being  
a bit pesky.

I'm looking forward to seeing your photos.

Lloyd

On Apr 7, 2008, at 7:21 PM, Bob wrote:

> It has to be taken apart from the top and the front, actually.
> The keys are screwed in from the back, but the key has to be slid
> back to disengage it from the key comb. The black panel on the front
> has to be removed to slide the key back.
> What is your time frame for doing this? I was planning to repair a
> couple keys on one of the H's in the shop this weekend...I planned to
> photograph the process for my picture collection, if this would help
> you.
>
> Bob
>
> - In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> > Thanks. I'm certain I need to take it apart and fix it properly.
> Your
> > picures gave me great insite of the mechanics. Does it disassemble
> > from the front or start at the top and work down?
> >
> > Also the very low volume I'm assuming is unrelated because I can
> hold
> > the preset keys down to hear the organ. As I said the finals are
> > good. Where would you recommend I start scoping the audio signal.
> >
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@> wrote:
> > >
> > > The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the
> keys...that
> > is
> > > that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had the
> > same
> > > symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time to
> > time on
> > > those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine
> returns
> > when
> > > I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 20
> or
> > so
> > > times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and this
> will
> > > help...at least it is worth a try.
> > > As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to
> > > fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge,
> > especially
> > > on the lower manual.
> > > The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that swings
> > on an
> > > arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a
> > flexible "finger"
> > > under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes that
> rod
> > away
> > > from the finger, and releases the preset key.
> > > When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is
> probably
> > worn
> > > or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent
> slightly
> > to
> > > restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
> > > I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
> > > In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to be
> > removed.
> > > If you have never done this, please let me know and I can walk
> you
> > > through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the process,
> > please
> > > let me know as I have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop and
> > would
> > > be glad to donate what I can.
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100"
> <fsimon001@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > H-100
> > > > My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to
> get
> > > > underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them
> > down
> > > > manually.
> > > > I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low
> > signal
> > > > is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-
> > amp.
> > > Like
> > > > I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have
> strong
> > > final
> > > > stage.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

Hi Bob,
I was curiouse if you took the Hammond H apart and took any photos 
like you said you may do.
Frank

--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@...> wrote:
>
> It has to be taken apart from the top and the front, actually.
> The keys are screwed in from the back, but the key has to be slid 
> back to disengage it from the key comb. The black panel on the 
front 
> has to be removed to slide the key back.
> What is your time frame for doing this? I was planning to repair a 
> couple keys on one of the H's in the shop this weekend...I planned 
to 
> photograph the process for my picture collection, if this would 
help 
> you.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> - In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> 
> wrote:
> >
> > Bob,
> > Thanks. I'm certain I need to take it apart and fix it properly. 
> Your 
> > picures gave me great insite of the mechanics. Does it 
disassemble 
> > from the front or start at the top and work down? 
> > 
> > Also the very low volume I'm assuming is unrelated because I can 
> hold 
> > the preset keys down to hear the organ. As I said the finals are 
> > good. Where would you recommend I start scoping the audio signal.
> > 
> > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@> 
wrote:
> > >
> > > The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the 
> keys...that 
> > is 
> > > that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had the 
> > same 
> > > symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time to 
> > time on 
> > > those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine 
> returns 
> > when 
> > > I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 20 
> or 
> > so 
> > > times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and this 
> will 
> > > help...at least it is worth a try.
> > > As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to 
> > > fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge, 
> > especially 
> > > on the lower manual.
> > > The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that 
swings 
> > on an 
> > > arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a 
> > flexible "finger" 
> > > under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes that 
> rod 
> > away 
> > > from the finger, and releases the preset key.
> > > When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is 
> probably 
> > worn 
> > > or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent 
> slightly 
> > to 
> > > restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
> > > I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
> > > In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to be 
> > removed.
> > > If you have never done this, please let me know and I can walk 
> you 
> > > through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the process, 
> > please 
> > > let me know as I  have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop 
and 

> > would 
> > > be glad to donate what I can.
> > > Bob
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
> <fsimon001@> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > H-100
> > > > My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble to 
> get 
> > > > underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold them 
> > down 
> > > > manually. 
> > > > I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the low 
> > signal 
> > > > is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a pre-
> > amp. 
> > > Like 
> > > > I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have 
> strong 
> > > final 
> > > > stage.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

This is a work in progress, but I have pictures of an H-112 on my 
Flickr site.
These show opening up the keyboards for access to replace keys, fix 
the presets, etc.
I will get to more sections in the coming weeks. Next I will be 
opening up the drawbars for cleaning.
Comments and suggestions by anyone is welcome.
Bob


--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
<fsimon001@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Bob,
> I was curiouse if you took the Hammond H apart and took any photos 
> like you said you may do.
> Frank
> 
> --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@> wrote:
> >
> > It has to be taken apart from the top and the front, actually.
> > The keys are screwed in from the back, but the key has to be slid 
> > back to disengage it from the key comb. The black panel on the 
> front 
> > has to be removed to slide the key back.
> > What is your time frame for doing this? I was planning to repair 
a 
> > couple keys on one of the H's in the shop this weekend...I 
planned 
> to 
> > photograph the process for my picture collection, if this would 
> help 
> > you.
> > 
> > Bob
> > 
> > 
> > - In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" <fsimon001@> 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Bob,
> > > Thanks. I'm certain I need to take it apart and fix it 
properly. 
> > Your 
> > > picures gave me great insite of the mechanics. Does it 
> disassemble 
> > > from the front or start at the top and work down? 
> > > 
> > > Also the very low volume I'm assuming is unrelated because I 
can 
> > hold 
> > > the preset keys down to hear the organ. As I said the finals 
are 
> > > good. Where would you recommend I start scoping the audio 
signal.
> > > 
> > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "Bob" <bobmannn@> 
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > The preset keys can have the same problem as any of the 
> > keys...that 
> > > is 
> > > > that dirty contacts will prevent them from operating. I had 
the 
> > > same 
> > > > symptoms on my H when I first got it, and still do from time 
to 
> > > time on 
> > > > those keys that see little usage. Normal operation on mine 
> > returns 
> > > when 
> > > > I hold the Cancel key down and tap the offending key rapidly 
20 
> > or 
> > > so 
> > > > times to clean the contacts. Maybe you will get lucky and 
this 
> > will 
> > > > help...at least it is worth a try.
> > > > As far as the key not staying down, this is not too hard to 
> > > > fix...however getting to the mechanism can be a challenge, 
> > > especially 
> > > > on the lower manual.
> > > > The mechanism is simple; there is a spring loaded bar that 
> swings 
> > > on an 
> > > > arc under the preset keys. When a key is pressed, a 
> > > flexible "finger" 
> > > > under the key holds on to that rod. The Cancel key pushes 
that 
> > rod 
> > > away 
> > > > from the finger, and releases the preset key.
> > > > When the preset key no longer stays down, the "finger" is 
> > probably 
> > > worn 
> > > > or stuck with dried grease, and can be cleaned and/or bent 
> > slightly 
> > > to 
> > > > restore it, assuming the finger is not broken.
> > > > I can send pictures of the mechanism if you would like.
> > > > In order to reach the mechanism, the keys obviously need to 
be 
> > > removed.
> > > > If you have never done this, please let me know and I can 
walk 
> > you 
> > > > through it. Also, if you find broken parts during the 
process, 
> > > please 
> > > > let me know as I  have a couple H's in pieces out in the shop 
> and 
> > > would 
> > > > be glad to donate what I can.
> > > > Bob
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > --- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, "fsimon100" 
> > <fsimon001@> 
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > H-100
> > > > > My preset keys won't stay engauged. How do you disassemble 
to 
> > get 
> > > > > underneath keys to fix. Also I have low volume if I hold 
them 
> > > down 
> > > > > manually. 
> > > > > I know final tube outputs are good but not sure where the 
low 
> > > signal 
> > > > > is. Do I scope out from the tonewheel somewhere then at a 
pre-

> > > amp. 
> > > > Like 
> > > > > I said I injected a tone into the final tube amps and have 
> > strong 
> > > > final 
> > > > > stage.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Tim 
I know you caught a lot of grief over the WD 40 on the bar for the 
preset keys but after I saw Bob samorkate photos I knew I could try 
it with little concern. For the record it worked great.
Frank




--- In vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com, timothy kosiorek 
<tkosiorek@...> wrote:
>
> 
> Hello:I've used this only on Hammond preset keys and not on key 
contacts and I've used it for 30 years without any problems,if you 
take the preset keys section apart the contacts are sealed up so the 
WD-40 does not get on them,The purpose that WD-40 was made for is to 
mix with other lubricants to thin them down,Hammond uses grease on 
the preset mechanism that dries out and turns to a very sticky 
paste,any contact cleaner would completely remove the lubricant and 
cause the presets to lock up,I would never use WD-40 on anything 
else,but this is a mechanical problem on metal to metal parts not an 
electrical problem.I work on a dozen Hammonds a month mostly in 
Churchs and I don't get callbacks but do get return business from my 
customers for other problems not related to my repairs,for 
electrical contact problems I use Caig De-oxit which is recommended 
by most manufacturers tech departments.I understand not using WD on 
clocks,most clocks are designed to have dry contact and not have 
lubricant which can cause the parts to stick together.
>  
> Tim K.
> direct link to my Ebay store. http://www.sonicelectronicmusic.com
> 
> 
> To: vintagesynthrepair@...: brian@...: Sun, 6 Apr 2008 19:02:56 
+0100Subject: RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Without doubt one of the worst things to do with any keyboard is 
to use WD40 on it.  It is intended to be used on motor vehicles, 
around the ignition for instance.  You can do untold damage with 
WD40 – we see this with clocks regularly and when one comes in for 
repair we double the service charge.
>  
> Recently I had a church organ to repair where the transpose keys 
and the preset tone keys had jammed up all due to the use of WD40 in 
the past.
>  
> So having said this, what should you use?  The answer is simple 
use something designed to be used on electronic equipment, 
Electrolube, also known as contact cleaner.  I don't know what the 
name is in the USA but I'm sure you have similar products.
>  
> 
> 
> Regards
> Brian G3OYU
> www.g3oyu.co.uk
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:vintagesynthrepair@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of timothy 
kosiorekSent: Sunday, 06 April 2008 18:54To: vintagesynthrepair@...: 
RE: [vintagesynthrepair] Hammond H100
>  
> 
> 
> 
> I see this problem with a lot of Hammonds and I usually try to 
cure it without taking anything apart,the grease on the mechanism 
gets thick with age and keeps the bars under the keys from 
moving,the way I fix it is by squirting WD-40 beside the keys and 
pushing them up and down,use the little hose that comes with the WD-
40 so you can shoot it all around the keys,the sticking mechanism is 
in the frontal part of the key,the WD-40 mixes with the grease and 
loosens it up,once you get the lock down bar to move go back and 
forth between the cancel key and the various preset keys,the volume 
should also return by rapidly moving the keys up and down because it 
usually is caused by dirty key contacts and the movement will clean 
the contacts,I've been fixing Hammonds this way for 30 years.only 
after trying this do I rarely have to get under the keys,if you have 
to get under them it is a bit of a project but only takes about an 
hour.Regards Tim K.
> 
> direct link to my Ebay store. http://www.sonicelectronicmusic.com
> E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (5.5.0.178)Database 
version: 5.09560http://www.pctools.com/Spyware-Doctor/
>

At 07:06 PM 4/13/2008, you wrote:

>Tim
>I know you caught a lot of grief over the WD 40 on the bar for the
>preset keys but after I saw Bob samorkate photos I knew I could try
>it with little concern. For the record it worked great.
>Frank

I have no idea whether or not one should use anything like WD 40 on a 
Hammond; the only person I know who says he is an "expert" on their 
restoration and upkeep  says he will never use Hammond brand oil on 
them, but ........

WD 40 was invented as a water displacer. and I also use it to carry 
oils deeper into the parts of things like pruning shears and various 
automotive tools....
however I know virtually nothing about the workings of the Hammond. 
which is why I am here. It is not possible to get real information 
from the "expert" in case that would be your next question.

hermine

On Monday 14 April 2008 13:15, hermine wrote:
> I have no idea whether or not one should use anything like WD 40 on a
> Hammond; the only person I know who says he is an "expert" on their
> restoration and upkeep  says he will never use Hammond brand oil on
> them, but ........

No?  So what do they use instead?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

On Monday 14 April 2008 14:41, hermine wrote:
> At 10:38 AM 4/14/2008, you wrote:
> >On Monday 14 April 2008 13:15, hermine wrote:
> > > I have no idea whether or not one should use anything like WD 40 on a
> > > Hammond; the only person I know who says he is an "expert" on their
> > > restoration and upkeep says he will never use Hammond brand oil on
> > > them, but ........
> >
> >No? So what do they use instead?
>
> I am afraid to ask because I could get yelled at. but i will ask.
> anyway. i think the fellow at one time sold his own concoction, but
> he does make an INTERESTING case for his view, let me see if I can
> find his website so I do not wind up speaking FOR him and getting
> yelled at...

Yelled at?  I wouldn't put up with that...

> gimme a sec.....Steve Leigh is the guy, and i met him through a common
> interest in DOG TRAINING, not music at all....he is a repository of
> trillions of facts, and capable of organizing them to perfection....

Well,  I'm a bit of an information packrat too,  the organizing part lagging 
somewhat.  :-)

> I am at his website and looking for the reference to Hammond
> Oil....

Would that be on this page here:

http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/generator.htm

?

I can see the point of what he's saying there up to an extent,  but no way 
would I believe that dirt particles are going to get carried along what he 
calls wicks and into the bearings.  What I have found to have happened,  on 
some occasions,  is that the old oil,  particularly in units that aren't 
played much,  tends to let its lighter fractions evaporate and what's left 
_is_ kinda gummy.  I did a service call some years ago,  back when I was 
still doing that sort of thing,  as it turns out right here in the town where 
I've been living for the past several years now.  You'd hit the switch and 
the tone generator wouldn't run _at all_.  But the unit hadn't been played 
for something like 8 years!  I found that I could turn the shaft of the 
generator by hand,  with some effort.  So I added some oil,  and turned it,  
and added some more,  and turned it,  and continued this way for a while,  
and eventually it got to the point where the gummy residue was sufficiently 
duluted by fresh oil that I was able to hit the switch and it'd start and run 
normally.  I let it run for quite a while,  and told the customer to let it 
run for several hours,  then try it the next day,  and if it didn't start 
right up to call me and I'd come back and help it out some more.  I didn't 
hear from them,  so I guess it was okay.

I notice too that he seems to not mention what he's using there.  And that he 
says that _all_ tonewheel generators have a start motor and a run motor -- 
this isn't the case.  I don't recall specific models any more,  as it's been 
over 20 years since I made most of my living from fixing organs,  but there 
were a number of models that had just the on-off switch,  and no separate 
start switch like the early ones did.  I'm guessing that early on the 
synchronous motors that were available didn't have enough torque to get 
things started,  while later motors did.

> in the same general vicinity he talks about a material used in 
> sealing the machinery in later Hammonds, which crumbles with time and
> makes a terrible mess, and I sure hope I do not encounter this stuff
> when I get into opening my T 211-1 to remove its Leslie and take it
> to the fixit guy.

Would that be this page here:

http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/manual.htm

?

I encountered some of that deteriorated foam while working on my car recently, 
in the dashboard!  I've also seen it in other places as well.  That bit about 
the broken resistance wire is a nasty problem,  and I don't like having to 
deal with that,  but weeks?  Nah.  I had a spinet once that belonged to 
a "cat lady" that suffered some damage in that area.  It wasn't gonna take me 
_weeks_ to trace through.  That was a pretty nasty situation too.

> http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/pro.htm
>
> this is where you start to look around, the website is huge, and you
> probably already know who he is, right?

Nope,  never heard of the guy.  But that's no surprise. I worked on organs a 
bunch,  starting in 1975 and stopping maybe 10-12 years later,  when things 
had tapered off pretty much.  But there are an awful lot of people out there 
who deal with this stuff,  no surprise that I've never heard of him.

So what's the problem with the Leslie?

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin

>
> > I am at his website and looking for the reference to Hammond
> > Oil....
>
>Would that be on this page here:
>
><http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/generator.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/generator.htm


Yes. but since for better or for worse, i think of the Hammond as if 
it were a kind of musical pre 1967 Volkswagen bus, on which I have 
done MUCH work, the notion of purging the oil seems OK to me, and the 
way we do this with a vw is to buy tons of cheap oil, change the oil, 
run the motor for a minute, CHANGE the oil again, and repeat this 
process until only clean oil comes out. we use the same viscosity, 
not something lighter, so as to cushion the engine against excessive 
wear from all the suspended CRAP in the oil coming into intimate 
contact with the metal. It has been ages since I had to do this, 
because i keep my cars very clean inside and out.

>?
>
>I can see the point of what he's saying there up to an extent, but no way
>would I believe that dirt particles are going to get carried along what he
>calls wicks and into the bearings. What I have found to have happened, on
>some occasions, is that the old oil, particularly in units that aren't
>played much, tends to let its lighter fractions evaporate and what's left
>_is_ kinda gummy.


yes, the car folks call this varnish, which it really is not, but i 
get the picture....

>  I did a service call some years ago,
>  I found that I could turn the shaft of the
>generator by hand, with some effort. So I added some oil, and turned it,
>and added some more, and turned it, and continued this way for a while,
>and eventually it got to the point where the gummy residue was sufficiently
>duluted by fresh oil that I was able to hit the switch and it'd start and run
>normally.


Yes, this is like the purge oil engine cleaning....


>I notice too that he seems to not mention what he's using there.


I never asked. I know that the oil for Omega watches at one time was 
exceedingly expensive per ounce, like Bulgarian Attar of Roses (the 
active ingredient in Joy Perfume) but there are many lightweight oils 
around, and i never asked what oil he was using. because i had not 
gotten that far, since i own my Hammonds for only about three 
weeks.  And was starting from ground zero and did not want to get 
anyone so angry at me that i felt I could never speak again to the 
person without being blinded by fury! perhaps you know what i mean.....


> > in the same general vicinity he talks about a material used in
> > sealing the machinery in later Hammonds, which crumbles with time and
> > makes a terrible mess, and I sure hope I do not encounter this stuff
> > when I get into opening my T 211-1 to remove its Leslie and take it
> > to the fixit guy.
>
>Would that be this page here:
>
><http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/manual.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/manual.htm


Yes. I found this terrifying since i have not done a motor tear down 
for 12 years, a tiny Fiat Multipla it was, and i wound up cleaning it 
on the kitchen counter with toothbrushes...


>?
>
>I encountered some of that deteriorated foam while working on my car 
>recently,
>in the dashboard!


OH NO! THAT STUFF! i have an ancient truck, MUNGO THE TRUCK OF DEATH 
whose dash is backed up by this material and I believe Mungo was born 
in the same year as my T-211-1 hammond! like breadcrumbs from HELL!

>I've also seen it in other places as well. That bit about
>the broken resistance wire is a nasty problem, and I don't like having to
>deal with that, but weeks? Nah. I had a spinet once that belonged to
>a "cat lady" that suffered some damage in that area. It wasn't gonna take me
>_weeks_ to trace through. That was a pretty nasty situation too.


I was a cat lady for a while, but whereas I did not have free for all 
cat piss in the house, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. I knew other cat people, 
(my eyes water from the memory of the aromas) and cat pee given 
enough time, will cause almost anything to rot, i believe)


> > 
> <http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/pro.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/pro.htm
> >
> > this is where you start to look around, the website is huge, and you
> > probably already know who he is, right?
>
>Nope, never heard of the guy. But that's no surprise. I worked on organs a
>bunch, starting in 1975 and stopping maybe 10-12 years later, when things
>had tapered off pretty much. But there are an awful lot of people out there
>who deal with this stuff, no surprise that I've never heard of him.


Somehow I think if I know somebody EVERYBODY else knows them, and 
often it is true because the world is a small place.


>So what's the problem with the Leslie?


It came to me having been turned off for  reasons unknown  and the 
last person who worked on it years ago said he does not remember WHY 
he turned it off. he referred me to a nearby fixit lad, who said 
sure, take the leslie OUT and bring it in. he also said they are not 
making them any more so the parts are you know, impossible to find, 
but as an ancient car fixit woman, I take this as a challenge since i 
have stockpiled many parts for cars which are no longer made, most of 
which i found in under  seven minutes. But I know my way around 
certain car parts and NOTHING about Hammond organ parts. I do know 
that i must have the leslie or another leslie which FUNCTIONS because 
i cannot bear to have something which has non-functioning parts. I 
can play the thing without the Leslie, but, knowing that it is there 
and not working is eating a hole in my head.

I also have a spinet, the cheap one with woodgrain formica on it, and 
as much as I loathe woodgrain formica, this is a pleasing instrument 
to me.  model 136124  apparently the last three letters tell us this 
is the grain of the fake wood.  it is not 136J24 which at first was 
very confusing to me when I was trying to get its manual book...

i have almost no keyboard experience, i am a classic guitarist in my 
heart, and had a pianist mother. this is my first foray into keyboards.
But i am a born natural fixer of things....and have restored things 
other than cars and musical instruments professionally.

another story.

hermine

On Monday 14 April 2008 16:48, hermine wrote:
> > > I am at his website and looking for the reference to Hammond
> > > Oil....
> >
> >Would that be on this page here:
> >
> ><http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/generator.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com
> >/prokeys/generator.htm
>
> Yes. but since for better or for worse, i think of the Hammond as if
> it were a kind of musical pre 1967 Volkswagen bus, on which I have
> done MUCH work, the notion of purging the oil seems OK to me, and the
> way we do this with a vw is to buy tons of cheap oil, change the oil,
> run the motor for a minute, CHANGE the oil again, and repeat this
> process until only clean oil comes out. we use the same viscosity,
> not something lighter, so as to cushion the engine against excessive
> wear from all the suspended CRAP in the oil coming into intimate
> contact with the metal. It has been ages since I had to do this,
> because i keep my cars very clean inside and out.

Well,  there might've been a bit of it dripping out the bottom by the time I 
was done...   :-)

> >?
> >
> >I can see the point of what he's saying there up to an extent, but no way
> >would I believe that dirt particles are going to get carried along what he
> >calls wicks and into the bearings. What I have found to have happened, on
> >some occasions, is that the old oil, particularly in units that aren't
> >played much, tends to let its lighter fractions evaporate and what's left
> >_is_ kinda gummy.
>
> yes, the car folks call this varnish, which it really is not, but i get the
> picture.... 

I don't know what that stuff is made out of,  offhand.  Wikipedia is not 
helping me here.  :-)

> > I did a service call some years ago,  I found that I could turn the shaft
> > of the generator by hand, with some effort. So I added some oil, and
> > turned it, and added some more, and turned it, and continued this way for
> > a while, and eventually it got to the point where the gummy residue was
> > sufficiently duluted by fresh oil that I was able to hit the switch and
> > it'd start and run normally.
>
> Yes, this is like the purge oil engine cleaning....
>
> >I notice too that he seems to not mention what he's using there.
>
> I never asked. I know that the oil for Omega watches at one time was
> exceedingly expensive per ounce, like Bulgarian Attar of Roses (the active
> ingredient in Joy Perfume) but there are many lightweight oils around,

I've never reallly looked into that much,  so far.

> and i never asked what oil he was using. because i had not gotten that far,
> since i own my Hammonds for only about three weeks.  And was starting from
> ground zero and did not want to get anyone so angry at me that i felt I
> could never speak again to the person without being blinded by fury! perhaps
> you know what i mean..... 

I don't bite.  :-)

> > > in the same general vicinity he talks about a material used in sealing
> > > the machinery in later Hammonds, which crumbles with time and makes a
> > > terrible mess, and I sure hope I do not encounter this stuff when I get
> > > into opening my T 211-1 to remove its Leslie and take it to the fixit
> > > guy. 
> >
> >Would that be this page here:
> >
> ><http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/manual.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com/pr
> >okeys/manual.htm
>
> Yes. I found this terrifying since i have not done a motor tear down for 12
> years, a tiny Fiat Multipla it was, and i wound up cleaning it on the
> kitchen counter with toothbrushes... 

Heh.

> >?
> >
> >I encountered some of that deteriorated foam while working on my car
> >recently, in the dashboard!
>
> OH NO! THAT STUFF! i have an ancient truck, MUNGO THE TRUCK OF DEATH
> whose dash is backed up by this material and I believe Mungo was born
> in the same year as my T-211-1 hammond! like breadcrumbs from HELL!

:-)

I forget where else I ran across a reference to it recently.  Somewhere...  If 
I come across it again I'll see what they have to say about removing it.  I 
agree with what he's saying there about how felt works better for some stuff.

BTW,  if you ever have to glue felt in place,  "SOBO" glue is good stuff to 
use,  it won't soak into the felt.

> > I've also seen it in other places as well. That bit about the broken
> > resistance wire is a nasty problem, and I don't like having to deal with
> > that, but weeks? Nah. I had a spinet once that belonged to a "cat lady"
> > that suffered some damage in that area. It wasn't gonna take me _weeks_ to
> > trace through. That was a pretty nasty situation too. 
>
> I was a cat lady for a while, but whereas I did not have free for all cat
> piss in the house, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. I knew other cat people, (my eyes
> water from the memory of the aromas) and cat pee given enough time, will
> cause almost anything to rot, i believe) 

This lady eventually had a local animal rescue operation named after her...

Had to move several times because things kept getting out of hand with how 
many there were.  When I went out there the organ was sitting out on the 
porch!  Also an old reed organ,  but I let somebody else deal with that.

> > <http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prokeys/pro.htm>http://www.sl-prokeys.com/prok
> > eys/pro.htm
> >
> > > this is where you start to look around, the website is huge, and you
> > > probably already know who he is, right?
> >
> > Nope, never heard of the guy. But that's no surprise. I worked on organs a
> > bunch, starting in 1975 and stopping maybe 10-12 years later, when things
> > had tapered off pretty much. But there are an awful lot of people out
> > there who deal with this stuff, no surprise that I've never heard of him.
>
> Somehow I think if I know somebody EVERYBODY else knows them, and
> often it is true because the world is a small place.

It amazes me sometimes how you can bump into people,  but it also amazes me 
sometimes how many different people I'm carryng on continuous conversations 
with in this medium,  on all sorts of subjects. And I've cut down on the 
number of mailing lists and groups and such,  it's way less than it used to 
be a couple years ago.

> >So what's the problem with the Leslie?
>
> It came to me having been turned off for  reasons unknown  and the
> last person who worked on it years ago said he does not remember WHY
> he turned it off. he referred me to a nearby fixit lad, who said
> sure, take the leslie OUT and bring it in. he also said they are not
> making them any more so the parts are you know, impossible to find,
> but as an ancient car fixit woman, I take this as a challenge since i
> have stockpiled many parts for cars which are no longer made, most of
> which i found in under  seven minutes.

Some parts might be a little difficult to find,  but not impossible.  They're 
all out there somewhere.

> But I know my way around certain car parts and NOTHING about Hammond organ
> parts. I do know that i must have the leslie or another leslie which
> FUNCTIONS because i cannot bear to have something which has non-functioning
> parts. I can play the thing without the Leslie, but, knowing that it is
> there and not working is eating a hole in my head.

Well what's it not doing?  Does the sound come through it at all?  Does the 
stuff that's supposed to rotate do so?

> I also have a spinet, the cheap one with woodgrain formica on it, and
> as much as I loathe woodgrain formica, this is a pleasing instrument
> to me.  model 136124  apparently the last three letters tell us this
> is the grain of the fake wood.  it is not 136J24 which at first was
> very confusing to me when I was trying to get its manual book...

I have some manuals here,  I'll have to have a look.

> i have almost no keyboard experience, i am a classic guitarist in my
> heart, and had a pianist mother. this is my first foray into keyboards.
> But i am a born natural fixer of things....and have restored things
> other than cars and musical instruments professionally.

Cool.  Let's kick this around some more,  and see what we can figure out.

-- 
Member of the toughest, meanest, deadliest, most unrelenting -- and
ablest -- form of life in this section of space,  a critter that can
be killed but can't be tamed.  --Robert A. Heinlein, "The Puppet Masters"
-
Information is more dangerous than cannon to a society ruled by lies. --James 
M Dakin