Digital BW, The Print

Hi,

I have a 2200 which is becoming aged.  I use Photoshop, Qimage and the 
QTR rip.

I am thinking of moving to the 2400 (or maybe the 3800) and am 
attracted to the ABW functionality and K3 inks.

Qimage converts grayscale to RGB during the print process (so I never 
bother converting to grayscale after fiddling in Photoshop.)

Can anyone tell me whether I will lose something in the ABW process 
because of Qimage's habit of converting everything to RGB?

Thanks very much,

Fred Rothenberg

I don't believe there's any difference when printing RGB in ABW with K3
ink.  At least I don't see any.  I also use Qimage along with
QTR-Create-ICC-RGB and just leave images in RGB.  For me Qimage has
excellent interpolation, sharpening and workflow.

Tom

On 1/1/07, fredila2 <fred@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a 2200 which is becoming aged.  I use Photoshop, Qimage and the
> QTR rip.
>
> I am thinking of moving to the 2400 (or maybe the 3800) and am
> attracted to the ABW functionality and K3 inks.
>
> Qimage converts grayscale to RGB during the print process (so I never
> bother converting to grayscale after fiddling in Photoshop.)
>
> Can anyone tell me whether I will lose something in the ABW process
> because of Qimage's habit of converting everything to RGB?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Fred Rothenberg
>
>
>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

You will lose nothing at all. I only send RGB images to ABW which are 
color digital captures altered to B&W with Convert to B&W pro but 
kept in RGB format. I do this so I can use PKS sharpener which only 
works with RGB images. I have never seen any differences between B&W 
images sent to ABW as greyscales or RGB's. Hope that helps!

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "fredila2" 
<fred@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> 
> I have a 2200 which is becoming aged.  I use Photoshop, Qimage and 
the 
> QTR rip.
> 
> I am thinking of moving to the 2400 (or maybe the 3800) and am 
> attracted to the ABW functionality and K3 inks.
> 
> Qimage converts grayscale to RGB during the print process (so I 
never 

> bother converting to grayscale after fiddling in Photoshop.)
> 
> Can anyone tell me whether I will lose something in the ABW process 
> because of Qimage's habit of converting everything to RGB?
> 
> Thanks very much,
> 
> Fred Rothenberg
>

In a message dated 1/1/07 2:09:06 PM, fred@... writes:


> Can anyone tell me whether I will lose something in the ABW process
> because of Qimage's habit of converting everything to RGB?
> 

Well, if the printer is going to add non-gray inks, to balance neutrality, or 
add tint as the case may be, then your image is going to be converted to 
"color" no matter what. I don't see that having three channels with the same 
grayscale information in them to be worse than one channel with that info in it, 
its just handy not to have to store all three, since they are identical. If you 
choose to tint your image, then the three are no longer identical, and for 
that tint information, you'll have to store the three channels. For neutral 
images, its not really necessary, and can save space.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

CDTobie@... wrote:
> If you 
> choose to tint your image, then the three are no longer identical, and for 
> that tint information, you'll have to store the three channels. For neutral 
> images, its not really necessary, and can save space.


To reduce confusion or am I confused :

The RGB with tint information will not print a tinted image 
with ABW if the last is set on neutral or will print 99,9% of 
the chances the wrong tint if it isn't set on neutral. The 
thread is about the use of ABW mode in the driver.



Met vriendelijke groeten,  Ernst


|  Dinkla Grafische Techniek  |
|     www.pigment-print.com    |
|             ( unvollendet )            |

FWIW, with photoshop 7, I get slightly different results if I send an 
RGB image to the Epson driver vs the identical image converted to 
greyscale.

-matt

In a message dated 1/2/07 12:02:24 PM, E.Dinkla@... writes:


> > If you
> > choose to tint your image, then the three are no longer identical, and for
> > that tint information, you'll have to store the three channels. For 
> neutral
> > images, its not really necessary, and can save space.
> 
> 
> To reduce confusion or am I confused :
> 
> The RGB with tint information will not print a tinted image
> with ABW if the last is set on neutral or will print 99,9% of
> the chances the wrong tint if it isn't set on neutral. The
> thread is about the use of ABW mode in the driver.
> 
> My response it about the more universal issue of one versus three channels, 
for B&W printing. In that context the extra two channels are only of use if you 
are tinting at the image level, not the profile or driver level, as you are, 
by definition, doing any tinting at the driver level if you use AWB.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Matt, thanks for your input (and those of the others who so kindly 
responded.)

Since you seem to be the only respondent who has seen a difference 
between using RGB vs. grayscale, can you tell me whether it is 
an "obvious" difference or one which requires "close up" inspection 
(e.g. closer than normal viewing distance)?

Thanks,

Fred

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Haber" 
<matt@...> wrote:

>
> FWIW, with photoshop 7, I get slightly different results if I send an 
> RGB image to the Epson driver vs the identical image converted to 
> greyscale.
> 
> -matt
>

It was very obvious to me at viewing distance--RGB printed lighter 
than greyscale.

-matt

> Matt, thanks for your input (and those of the others who so kindly 
> responded.)
> 
> Since you seem to be the only respondent who has seen a difference 
> between using RGB vs. grayscale, can you tell me whether it is 
> an "obvious" difference or one which requires "close up" inspection 
> (e.g. closer than normal viewing distance)?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Fred
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Haber" 
> <matt@...> wrote:
> >
> > FWIW, with photoshop 7, I get slightly different results if I send an 
> > RGB image to the Epson driver vs the identical image converted to 
> > greyscale.
> > 
> > -matt
X-PMFLAGS: 16384 0 1 INETSIG.PMS                            

--
Matt Haber
dance, portrait and fashion photography
http://www.matthaber.com

I thought if the RGB numbers were all equal, like Red=150, Green=150 and
Blue=150, it would look the same as grayscale.  I've printed both grayscale
and RGB using QTR Create ICC and really didn't see any difference.

Tom Husband

On 1/2/07, Matt Haber <matt@...> wrote:
>
> It was very obvious to me at viewing distance--RGB printed lighter
> than greyscale.
>
> -matt
>
> > Matt, thanks for your input (and those of the others who so kindly
> > responded.)
> >
> > Since you seem to be the only respondent who has seen a difference
> > between using RGB vs. grayscale, can you tell me whether it is
> > an "obvious" difference or one which requires "close up" inspection
> > (e.g. closer than normal viewing distance)?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Fred
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Haber"
> > <matt@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > FWIW, with photoshop 7, I get slightly different results if I send an
> > > RGB image to the Epson driver vs the identical image converted to
> > > greyscale.
> > >
> > > -matt
> X-PMFLAGS: 16384 0 1 INETSIG.PMS
>
> --
> Matt Haber
> dance, portrait and fashion photography
> http://www.matthaber.com
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]