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Digital BW, The Print

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New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-15 by kwcoop2000

Hello-

I know that this is a group of experts and new "upstarts" are 
probably a pain, but I'm glad to find what appears to be exactly 
what I'm looking for.   I have a home darkroom and have labored over 
my good 'ol chemicals for years.  I have also crossed into the 
digital realm but been unable to reproduce what I can do in darkroom 
when it comes to my preferred medium - black and white.  I have an 
oodle of equipment but find myself still getting my hands wet in the 
darkroom to get the prints that I really want.

If you aren't already bored with my ramblings, I'd like some advice 
based on your experience, and based on some of my existing equipment.

I have a Nikon F100 and am very comfortable with Tri-X 400.  I have 
years of B&W negatives from my beloved old Leica M6 that I no longer 
own.  I process my own film at home and have scanned some into my 
computer using a Nikon Coolscan IV ED film scanner.  Then use PS 
Elements to tweek the images to my liking (or at least the best they 
look on my standard Dell CRT monitor).  But this is where it ends.

I have an Epson 785 EPX photo printer, but the black only results 
are not good.  I usually just use basic black only settings and 
Epson premium photo paper, glossy.  The prints are dark gray and 
muddy and I can see print lines, even at 28800 resolution printing.

I also take multitudes of digital images with a Nikon D100, but I'm 
not as happy with these images when converted to greyscale.  I 
really prefer the look and tonality of my Tri-X negs.

You guys appear to have pioneered into where I need to go from 
here.  Any advice as to which steps I should take next? 

I can buy an Epson 1280 if it would do me some good. I don't mind 
keeping my darkroom for film processing reasons, but would love to 
use the benefits of Photoshop form tweaking my images instead of 
printing in the darkroom.  I just need an output that will give the 
good "black blacks" that I love about my darkroom fiber prints.

Thanks for any advice you can share from you experience.

Keith W. Cooper
Little Rock, AR

RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-15 by Paul Roark

>... PS  Elements to ...

The PS curves I use need to be put on layers.  Then you can use all these
workflows.  I like the idea of PS Elements being the alternative to the
full, rather pricey version.  So, I'll make a file with the layers for
anyone who needs my curves.

>I have an Epson 785 EPX photo printer, ...

>I can buy an Epson 1280 if it would do me some good.

Yes, it's really needed.  For 8x10 the C86 is great and easy.  For 13", a
used/refurbished 2000P or 1270 can also be fine.  Of course, the 2200 is
real nice, but more expensive.

You might want to check out my information index at
http://home1.gte.net/res09aij/index.htm.

(Note that I do a lot of the inkset formulas and curves that are on the MIS
<www.inksupply.com> webpage, as such I no doubt have a bias toward them.  I
am, however, independent and receive no royalties or other money from MIS,
but I do receive free ink and supplies.)

Good luck in your digital B&W printing.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Ken Carney

Hello, Keith.  You will no doubt receive much good advice here.  I have
(had) a fine darkroom for many years, printing silver on fiber paper and
platinum/palladium on hand-coated paper.  For the last few years, all
printing has been "digital", now on an Epson 2200 (I don't print very large)
with factory UC inks and the ImagePrint 6 RIP.  There are several other ways
to print b&w, but this one is fast and easy.  I like my Epson prints better
than my darkroom prints, but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the look of an
air-dried fiber print.  It's just something you have to get over, but once
behind glass I like my Epson prints (on good matte paper such as PhotoRag).
Most of the time in converting digital images to b&w I use a really useful
PhotoShop action which allows you to pick the film effect you want (e.g.,
TriX)in the channel conversion, and then in a second action set up the
"darkroom" for final adjustments.  Wish I could remember where I got it.

Regards,

  --Ken Carney
    www.kencarney.com  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kwcoop2000 [mailto:drcooper@...] 
> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 12:27 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hello-
> 
> I know that this is a group of experts and new "upstarts" are 
> probably a pain, but I'm glad to find what appears to be exactly 
> what I'm looking for.   I have a home darkroom and have labored over 
> my good 'ol chemicals for years.  I have also crossed into 
> the digital realm but been unable to reproduce what I can do 
> in darkroom when it comes to my preferred medium - black and 
> white.  I have an oodle of equipment but find myself still 
> getting my hands wet in the darkroom to get the prints that I 
> really want.
> 
> If you aren't already bored with my ramblings, I'd like some 
> advice based on your experience, and based on some of my 
> existing equipment.
> 
> I have a Nikon F100 and am very comfortable with Tri-X 400.  
> I have years of B&W negatives from my beloved old Leica M6 
> that I no longer own.  I process my own film at home and have 
> scanned some into my computer using a Nikon Coolscan IV ED 
> film scanner.  Then use PS Elements to tweek the images to my 
> liking (or at least the best they look on my standard Dell 
> CRT monitor).  But this is where it ends.
> 
> I have an Epson 785 EPX photo printer, but the black only 
> results are not good.  I usually just use basic black only 
> settings and Epson premium photo paper, glossy.  The prints 
> are dark gray and muddy and I can see print lines, even at 
> 28800 resolution printing.
> 
> I also take multitudes of digital images with a Nikon D100, 
> but I'm not as happy with these images when converted to 
> greyscale.  I really prefer the look and tonality of my Tri-X negs.
> 
> You guys appear to have pioneered into where I need to go 
> from here.  Any advice as to which steps I should take next? 
> 
> I can buy an Epson 1280 if it would do me some good. I don't 
> mind keeping my darkroom for film processing reasons, but 
> would love to use the benefits of Photoshop form tweaking my 
> images instead of printing in the darkroom.  I just need an 
> output that will give the good "black blacks" that I love 
> about my darkroom fiber prints.
> 
> Thanks for any advice you can share from you experience.
> 
> Keith W. Cooper
> Little Rock, AR
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or 
> you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership 
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> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks 
> or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be 
> removed from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
> digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic 
> posts may be removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group 
> rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and 
> decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See "Group 
> Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL 
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE 
> THAT THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, 
> INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF 
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN 
> IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH 
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
> ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) 
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Paul Roark

>...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the 
>look of an air-dried fiber print.  ...

Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
this afternoon is awfully close.  I framed it borderless, with no matte
board and no glazing.  That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
looking into it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Tom Baker

Paul  -
 
Did you mean Semimatte or Semigloss?  The last I heard you were working with the Semigloss.
 
Tom Baker

Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

>...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the 
>look of an air-dried fiber print. ...

Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
this afternoon is awfully close. I framed it borderless, with no matte
board and no glazing. That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
looking into it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by c_h_r_i_s_e_l_l_i_s

Has anyone tried this combination with the VM inkset + the PK black 
ink?  The gloss papers I've tried so far like this have only been OK.

Thanks

Chris

> Paul Roark <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> >...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
> >would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the 
> >look of an air-dried fiber print. ...
> 
> Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte 
(sprayed
> with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a 
wood frame
> this afternoon is awfully close. I framed it borderless, with no 
matte
> board and no glazing. That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front 
of it
> and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- 
almost like
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> looking into it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by sinwen

Semimatte or Semigloss ? Actually Epson produce both and I don't really find the difference on small size samples. 
(a glass of water is half full or half empty ? :-))

Michel

  ...

  Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
  with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
  this afternoon is awfully close.  I framed it borderless, with no matte
  board and no glazing.  That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
  and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
  looking into it.

  Paul
  www.PaulRoark.com 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

I think Carl Schofield's and others tests of "glop" will get you even
closer....

Am I right in understanding you took the image right to the edge of the
wooden frame?
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:00:49 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
>> ...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>> would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the
>> look of an air-dried fiber print.  ...
> 
> Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
> with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
> this afternoon is awfully close.  I framed it borderless, with no matte
> board and no glazing.  That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
> and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
> looking into it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi matt.
This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which is not
available in the US.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:03:05 -0800 (PST)
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> Paul  -
>  
> Did you mean Semimatte or Semigloss?  The last I heard you were working with
> the Semigloss.
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:
> 
>> ...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>> would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the
>> look of an air-dried fiber print. ...
> 
> Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
> with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
> this afternoon is awfully close. I framed it borderless, with no matte
> board and no glazing. That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
> and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
> looking into it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by lulalake_1999

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
<stevekale@b...> wrote:
> My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi 
matt.
> This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which 
is not
> available in the US.


> 
Hi Steve,

You bring up an interesting point. 

What excellent papers are available in Europe that are not available 
in the US?

I am going to the UK over Christmas. I wonder if someone could 
recommend a good archival paper, 13x19 or perhaps A3 (For an Epson 
2200) that isn't available in the US? 

Thanks

Jules

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

I would definitely think about picking up some Premium Semigloss.  Otherwise
you might want to compare prices for Permajet Alpha and HPR.  However with
your dollar crashing you might not like the prices - although once these
companies' forex hedging has rolled off you can expect some massive price
hikes in the US (hasn't HPR already led the way?)
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: lulalake_1999 <lulalake_1999@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 14:08:35 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
>> My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi
> matt.
>> This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which
> is not
>> available in the US.
> 
> 
>> 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> You bring up an interesting point.
> 
> What excellent papers are available in Europe that are not available
> in the US?
> 
> I am going to the UK over Christmas. I wonder if someone could
> recommend a good archival paper, 13x19 or perhaps A3 (For an Epson
> 2200) that isn't available in the US?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jules
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by sinwen

Jules,

There are all Canson papers :
http://www.canson.fr/EN/?PHPSESSID=ea374cbe35ec6edc7796d83def22672e

Michel


  > 
  Hi Steve,

  You bring up an interesting point. 

  What excellent papers are available in Europe that are not available 
  in the US?

  I am going to the UK over Christmas. I wonder if someone could 
  recommend a good archival paper, 13x19 or perhaps A3 (For an Epson 
  2200) that isn't available in the US? 

  Thanks

  Jules






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by lulalake_1999

Thanks for the recommendations folks. 

I will definitely get a book of Premium semigloss. Perma-Jet is 
available in the US. I am going to shoot about 15 rolls of film, 
purchased and waiting to be picked up in London, and have it 
processed while there so I will be plying the photo shops and pro 
processing labs even though I'm visiting my daughter for the holidays.

Since I use an Epson I'll stay away from the Canon papers, don't know 
about the compatibility and they are pretty common in the US but 
thanks for the heads up on these papers anyway.

Thanks again

Jules


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "lulalake_1999" 
<lulalake_1999@y...> wrote:
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale 
> <stevekale@b...> wrote:
> > My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi 
> matt.
> > This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which 
> is not
> > available in the US.
> 
> 
> > 
> Hi Steve,
> 
> You bring up an interesting point. 
> 
> What excellent papers are available in Europe that are not 
available 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> in the US?
> 
> I am going to the UK over Christmas. I wonder if someone could 
> recommend a good archival paper, 13x19 or perhaps A3 (For an Epson 
> 2200) that isn't available in the US? 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jules

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Robert Damon

On Dec 16, 2004, at 8:54 AM, Steve Kale wrote:

>
> My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi matt.
> This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which is 
> not
> available in the US.
>

Hmm...
I have a box of Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper sitting right next 
to me in my office. Bought it in Cambridge, MA (definitely in the U.S.) 
a few weeks ago. Is this the same paper you are referring to, or is it 
something different?

Regards,
Bob

RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Paul Roark

Chris,

The old VM inks are not glossy paper compatible.  With enough spray,
however, you could get them to stick.  Some people used to do this.  I never
felt it was entirely satisfactory.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
__________________
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: c_h_r_i_s_e_l_l_i_s [mailto:s0459187@...] 
Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2004 12:34 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!



Has anyone tried this combination with the VM inkset + the PK black 
ink?  The gloss papers I've tried so far like this have only been OK.

Thanks

Chris

> Paul Roark <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> 
> >...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
> >would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the 
> >look of an air-dried fiber print. ...
> 
> Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte 
(sprayed
> with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a 
wood frame
> this afternoon is awfully close. I framed it borderless, with no 
matte
> board and no glazing. That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front 
of it
> and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- 
almost like
> looking into it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com






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RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Paul Roark

Tom,

I'm working with Premium Semimatte now, largely because the Semigloss is not
available in rolls.  Additionally, the Semimatte does have a bit less
bronzing.  Epson seems to have selected it as the medium of choice for the
4000 and other large format printers.  I think the more subdued gloss might
be seen as more of a "fine art" type of medium.  Also, from a marketing
perspective it may help to be able to explain to gallery types that the
photo is on "lacquered (in my case) semi-matte paper that has been rated by
Wilhelm as having a storage life of >200 years, the highest rating he
gives." 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Baker [mailto:tbaker1328@...] 
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 10:03 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!


Paul  -
 
Did you mean Semimatte or Semigloss?  The last I heard you were working with
the Semigloss.
 
Tom Baker

Paul Roark <paul.roark@...> wrote:

>...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the 
>look of an air-dried fiber print. ...

Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
this afternoon is awfully close. I framed it borderless, with no matte
board and no glazing. That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
looking into it.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 





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MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Paul Roark

Steve,

>I think Carl Schofield's and others tests of "glop" will get 
>you even closer....

I'm looking into it.  I don't yet know what the glop is composed of, and I
doubt it will seal the print the way the spray does.  But, in terms of ease
of application, I'm definitely looking at it.

>Am I right in understanding you took the image right to the 
>edge of the wooden frame?

Yes.  

I do realize that wood puts out nasty substances that will attack the print.
Hopefully if the wood and print are both sealed, that will take care of the
problem.  

Aesthetically, I have never really liked a white border or mat around the
print.  I think it pulls the eye away from the image.  I fully expect the
"fine art" types to be horrified by the lack of glass and traditional
matting.  But, to me the image just looks better this way.  The most
appropriate type of frame -- natural wood, black, or whatever -- and the
whole approach is still a work in progress and very subjective, of course.
But as I sit here looking at a traditional matte under glass photo on the
wall to my right and a Semimatte print with no glass on my left, the
unglazed Semimatte simply blows away the glazed print due mostly to the lack
of reflections. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com
_______________________





> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 20:00:49 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
>> ...but there is one thing: So far as I know, and I
>> would like to be corrected, there is no way to replicate the
>> look of an air-dried fiber print.  ...
> 
> Probably still technically true, but the Epson Premium Semimatte (sprayed
> with PremierArt Print Shield) that I dry-mounted and stuck in a wood frame
> this afternoon is awfully close.  I framed it borderless, with no matte
> board and no glazing.  That 2.3+ dmax image, with no glass in front of it
> and no distracting white around it, is very nice to look at -- almost like
> looking into it.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND
„MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL
BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON
THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO
THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
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POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
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Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

Hmmmm I thought Paul had told me it was not available in the US.  Also it
does not appear in Epson US's paper swatch booklet.  They have Photo
Semigloss Paper and Premium Glossy Photo Paper but no Premium Semigloss
Photo Paper.  Maybe it is an Epson Enhanced Matte (US) vs Epson Archival
Matte (UK) thing.....

The only papers listed in their swatch book under "Photographic Papers" are:

Premium Luster Photo Paper
Premium Semimatte Photo Paper (250gm)
Colorlife Photo Paper Semigloss (dye ink only)
Premium Glossy Photo Paper (250)
Premium Double Sided Photo Paper
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Robert Damon <robert.damon@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:21:25 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 16, 2004, at 8:54 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> 
>> 
>> My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium semi matt.
>> This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss which is
>> not
>> available in the US.
>> 
> 
> Hmm...
> I have a box of Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper sitting right next
> to me in my office. Bought it in Cambridge, MA (definitely in the U.S.)
> a few weeks ago. Is this the same paper you are referring to, or is it
> something different?
> 
> Regards,
> Bob
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

I agree re no glazing.  It makes a huge difference.  I still like the white
border though (and a mat board).  My understanding is that glop is the resin
without the pigment but only a call to MIS would find the truth.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Roark <paul.roark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 08:57:46 -0800
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
>> I think Carl Schofield's and others tests of "glop" will get
>> you even closer....
> 
> I'm looking into it.  I don't yet know what the glop is composed of, and I
> doubt it will seal the print the way the spray does.  But, in terms of ease
> of application, I'm definitely looking at it.
> 
>> Am I right in understanding you took the image right to the
>> edge of the wooden frame?
> 
> Yes.  
> 
> I do realize that wood puts out nasty substances that will attack the print.
> Hopefully if the wood and print are both sealed, that will take care of the
> problem.  
> 
> Aesthetically, I have never really liked a white border or mat around the
> print.  I think it pulls the eye away from the image.  I fully expect the
> "fine art" types to be horrified by the lack of glass and traditional
> matting.  But, to me the image just looks better this way.  The most
> appropriate type of frame -- natural wood, black, or whatever -- and the
> whole approach is still a work in progress and very subjective, of course.
> But as I sit here looking at a traditional matte under glass photo on the
> wall to my right and a Semimatte print with no glass on my left, the
> unglazed Semimatte simply blows away the glazed print due mostly to the lack
> of reflections. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com
> _______________________
>

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by jessupsa

Steve,
Check out this link for Premium semigloss:
http://www.inkjetart.com/epson_paper/premium_semigloss.html
Sarah
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Steve Kale
<stevekale@b...> 
wrote:
> Hmmmm I thought Paul had told me it was not available in the US. 
Also it
> does not appear in Epson US's paper swatch booklet.  They have Photo
> Semigloss Paper and Premium Glossy Photo Paper but no Premium
Semigloss
> Photo Paper.  Maybe it is an Epson Enhanced Matte (US) vs Epson
Archival
> Matte (UK) thing.....
> 
> The only papers listed in their swatch book under "Photographic
Papers" are:
> 
> Premium Luster Photo Paper
> Premium Semimatte Photo Paper (250gm)
> Colorlife Photo Paper Semigloss (dye ink only)
> Premium Glossy Photo Paper (250)
> Premium Double Sided Photo Paper
> 
> 
> > From: Robert Damon <robert.damon@m...>
> > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 11:21:25 -0500
> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this
exists!
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Dec 16, 2004, at 8:54 AM, Steve Kale wrote:
> > 
> >> 
> >> My understanding is Paul has been working with Epson premium
semi matt.
> >> This is not available in Europe.  We have premium semigloss
which is
> >> not
> >> available in the US.
> >> 
> > 
> > Hmm...
> > I have a box of Epson Premium Semigloss Photo Paper sitting right
next
> > to me in my office. Bought it in Cambridge, MA (definitely in the
U.S.)
> > a few weeks ago. Is this the same paper you are referring to, or
is it
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > something different?
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Bob
> > 
> >

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-16 by Steve Kale

Thanks.  All I can say is what I said.  It does not appear in Epson's US
sample guide - grab some quick!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: jessupsa <sjessup@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:18:24 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!
> 
> 
> 
> Steve,
> Check out this link for Premium semigloss:
> http://www.inkjetart.com/epson_paper/premium_semigloss.html
> Sarah

Re: [Digital BW] New to forum, excited to find that this exists!

2004-12-17 by c_h_r_i_s_e_l_l_i_s

Thanks Paul.  

I've had similar experiences so far with glossy paper.  It didn't 
really work for me either.

Am about halfway through my current batch of ink and excited about 
getting some UT2 when done - if only to have a bit more sepia tone 
available.  

It'll probably take me about 6 months to get there, although I'm 
printing much more now I'm getting the hang of this, and really 
liking the results.

Chris


> Chris,
> 
> The old VM inks are not glossy paper compatible.  With enough spray,
> however, you could get them to stick.  Some people used to do 
this.  I never
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> felt it was entirely satisfactory.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

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