Bonjour les amis Polysix,
1) Concerning the problem with led C+3, I have rechecked continuity between IC without success (cold and warm check). Precisely I have checked between IC31-8 and all the follwoing:
Board 367 (Ic33-10 ic26-4 ic28-14 cn6-5 cn10-2)
Board 371 (ic2-6 ic4-6)
Board 370 (sw2-0)
All continuity seem OK.
Anyway problem with C3 is not clear. It could appear after 30s warm up or never (If I do nothing ?), unless I switch apparently effect mode buttom or led 3. It disappears if I select "manual" ... Then selecting "1" again make C3 disappear until I select "3" and then "C" light up directly ...?
2) For the "high" voltage please find an update of the reading (done at normal setting as shown in service manual, figure1 and manual switch on):
IC10-1 13,46
IC10-2 13,46
IC10-3 NOT STABLE ~0,2?
IC10-4 -14,99
IC10-5 3,173
IC10-6 3,206
IC10-7 3,206
IC10-8 14,94
IC11 is too high too?
IC11-1 14,2
IC11-2 14,2
IC11-3 NOT STABLE ~0,38
IC11-4 -14,99
IC11-5 3,174
IC11-6 ~3,2
IC11-7 ~3,2
IC11-8 14,94
SO I have checked the following (in case...):
IC16-1 3,18
IC7-1 3,212
IC7-7 3,16
IC9-1 3,18
IC12-7 2,2
IC12-1 2,21
IC13-1 2,21
IC13-7 2,22
IC14-7 2,22
3) For the usb -scope I have try to join as an example a screen copy of the signal found at TP5 equivalent to figure 2
"observe connector CN3-5 on oscilloscope"
Thanks again for your support and comments
Phil
Le Mercredi 4 juin 2014 4h32, "Bob Grieb bobgrieb@yahoo.com [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Phil,
You said you have 13.56 volts on IC10-1. This is very strange.
Please check to see if pins 1 and 2 of this chip are connected as they
should be. Do you see the same voltage on pin 2? Also, measure the
voltage on pin 3. With the output connected to the inverting input,
this op amp is a voltage follower. The output should match the input
(at pin 3) Pin 3 should never go beyond +/- 5 volts, since it is fed
from IC18 which has those as its power rails. So something odd is happening
here. Or maybe that op amp is just toast. It seems like the output is
just sitting at its positive output limit.
Bob
From: "Phil65 phil0065@yahoo.fr [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: "PolySix@yahoogroups.com" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: SV: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Hi
My KLM 367 repairing may not be good enough as I realize on Sunday that after 5-10 minutes of warming I have additional leds along with A+1 (led 3 then C+3 are also flashing). Disappointing..
I spend many time rechecking the board without success. After some cool down, when I switch ON, only leds A1 are on but after some timeof warming C + 3 are coming back plus a noisy sound.
Please find also an update on the voltage:
Does IC10 have -15 on pin 4? => -15V
Does IC18 have +5 on pin 16 and -5 on pin 7? => Yes +5V and -5V
I have also recheck the DAC calib.
Cut off set to 10 => led 1+8
Cut Off from 0-8 => led 1+5
Speed intensity 0-6 => led 1+8
Speed intensity 7-10 => led 4+8
Today unfortunately I do not have access to a proper oscillo. I will check what I can do with this simple USB oscillo, but I did try already and manage to get for example the correct shape for the figure 2 in the adjustment procedure (20 msec). I will send a screen copy in a next mail
Thanks
Phil
Le Mardi 3 juin 2014 14h03, "'Hans' hr.public@lonningdal.net [PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Hi
From my own experience a scope based around a USB sound card they’re only useful up to approx. 5200Hz.
There are ways around this by implementing a simple sample and hold circuit to the input. But this circuit has to be synced with the ADC clock which complicate things. I’ve not investigated this further, but my guess this is how many low priced digital scopes is manufactured.
-hans
Fra:PolySix@yahoogroups.com [mailto:PolySix@yahoogroups.com]
Sendt: 3. juni 2014 13:48
Til: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Hi Phil,
If you plan to use that USB DAC as an oscilloscope, I don't think
it will work very well. It's more of a data sampler, than a scope, it seems.
It doesn't sample fast enough to show the waveforms in a processor-based
synth. You need something with at least 10-20 MHz bandwidth, and really
at least 60 MHz would be much better.
Bob
From:"Phil65 phil0065@yahoo.fr[PolySix]" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To: PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2014 6:54 AM
Subject: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Thanks Bob and Johannes
I am off for the week end with family, but managed to take only the KLM 367A board and VM (shh!, don't tell my wife she doesn't know....)
I have checked all connections on IC23 and are OK. I will update on voltage on Sunday night..
Also I have managed to get a USB oscillo (data acquisition board) with dedicated software (tracerDAQ). Precisely:
http://www.mccdaq.com/usb-data-acquisition/USB-1208FS.aspx
much better than nothing, so I should be equipped for the next stage... (still in learning phase anyway !)
Thanks for your support
Phil
--------------------------------------------
En date de : Jeu 29.5.14, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@yahoo.com[PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Objet: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
À: "PolySix@yahoogroups.com" <PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Jeudi 29 mai
2014, 14h49
Sorry for
the multiple emails. In DAC calibration
mode,you
should be able to turn the cutoff and see the lit LED move
from 5-8as
you turn it. Likewise, you should be able to move the
speed/intensity potand
see the other lit LED move from 1-4.
Bob
From:
"Phil65 phil0065@yahoo.fr[PolySix]"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To:
PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 29,
2014 4:47 AM
Subject: Re: [PolySix]
EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Looking at the klm367 schematic, I understand now
your point with the
connections between pins and signal P20,
P21 and P22 but I had some diffuculty to cross link that
information
with the PCB drawing... until I realize that i
was counting incorrectly the pins while I did know that it
was from top right then CCW
Do what I say, not what I do... I was correct for top side
numbers but reverse for the bottom side i.e i did restart
with 9 below 1... Stupid!
So now I do have the following:
P22 IC18-9 IC19-9 and IC22-23 => OK
P21 IC18-10
IC19-10 and IC22-22 => OK
P20 IC18-11 IC19-11 and IC22-21 => OK
INH IC19-6 and IC23-10 => OK
"X" IC18-3 and IC19-3 and IC27-1
=>OK
I did recheck my previous post to correct them in light of
my wrong pin counting
1) I did the DAC calib again and turning
VR6 CCW => from
led 8 to led 7 6 then 5, while turning VR7 CCW from led 8 to
7 then 6
OK
2) pin 3 of IC18 and pin 1 of IC27, OK
OK
3) pin 6 of IC18 and IC23-4. OK
OK
4) pins 9,10 and 11 of IC18 and 19 should be connected to
each other and to IC22 ?
UPDATED: Wrong comment see above!
5) With power on, you should be able to vary a front
panel
control,such as filter cutoff, and see IC7 pin 7 change
voltage as you
do it (in manual mode).
3.177V => 3.120V cut off from 10 to 0 with all controls
at normal setting
UPDATED: Luckily correct, I
did measure in fact pin 6 but it
is strapped to pin 7...
6) when you select different patches, you should see the
attack at IC10-1decay
=> On IC 10-1 no change always 13.56V
UPDATED: Correct measurement
7) Decay at IC10-7 ?
=>slight variation between patches. In manual mode and
normal setting with decay control from 0 to 10 => 3.240V
to 3.346V
UPDATED: Again Luckily correct, I did measure in fact pin 6
but it is strapped to pin 7...
I apologize for my mistake and
thanks again for your
patience and your support.
Phil
--------------------------------------------
En date de : Jeu 29.5.14, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@yahoo.com
[PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Objet: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after battery
leakage
À: "PolySix@yahoogroups.com"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Jeudi 29 mai 2014, 3h28
These should be
connected:
IC18-9 IC19-9 and IC22-23 this
is signal "P22"
IC18-10 IC19-10 and IC22-22
this is signal
"P21"
IC18-11 IC19-11 and IC22-21
this is signal
"P20"
IC19-6 and
IC23-10
Also, IC18-3 must connect to
IC19-3 as well as to IC27-1 which you checked already.
You may want to download the
service manual as it is available forfree on the web, and
see the
schematic for KLM-367.
If IC18
and IC19 are not
connected properly, the control voltages
won't work
correctly.
Please ignore IC22 pins 5, 19,and
35. They are not related to
this discussion. We are
checking A B C and INH signals to IC18 and
IC19.
Bob
From: "Phil65
phil0065@yahoo.fr[PolySix]"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To:
PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May
28, 2014 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [PolySix]
EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Hi Bob,
You are really helpfull. Merci !
1) I did the DAC calib again and turning VR6 CCW =>
from
led 8 to led 7 6 then 5, while turning VR7 CCW from led
8
to 7 then 6
2) pin 3 of IC18 and pin 1 of IC27, OK
3) pin 6 of IC18 and IC23-4. OK
4) pins 9,10 and 11 of IC18 and 19 should be connected to
each other and to IC22 ?
It seems I have a problem here. I found only IC18-9 +
IC19-9 + IC22 -5 , IC22-19 and IC22-35 connected
together.
Nothing between IC18-10 (IC18-11) with any pin of IC19
or
IC22 ??
Shall I strap IC18-9 + 10 + 11
5) With power on, you should be able to vary a front
panel
control,such as filter cutoff, and see IC7 pin
7
change
voltage as you
do it (in manual mode).
3.177V => 3.120V cut off from 10 to 0 with all
controls
at normal setting
6) when you select different patches, you should see the
attack at IC10-1decay
=> On IC 10-1 no change always 13.56V
7) Decay at IC10-7 ?
=>slight variation between patches. In manual mode
and
normal setting with decay control from 0 to 10 =>
3.240V
to 3.346V
Thanks for
your help, really appreciated !
Phil
--------------------------------------------
En date de : Jeu 29.5.14, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@yahoo.com
[PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Objet: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after
battery
leakage
À: "PolySix@yahoogroups.com"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Jeudi 29 mai 2014, 0h21
Hi Phil,
If you are seeing LEDs 1 and 8 in DAC calibration mode,
that
impliesthat
the DAC and the input muxes are
working. Another
thing
to try -
in
the DAC calibration test mode, turn the two controls
that
you were supposedto
set for this test, and you should see the LED's
change.
Don't worry about the click noise test for
now.
The voltage demux for controlling the EG and the VCF is
mostlyIC18
(4051). I would
check with the ohmmeter that you
have
good connections(with
the power off, of course) between pin 3 of IC18 and pin
1
of
IC27, and between
pin
6 of IC18 and IC23-4. Also, pins 9,10 and 11 of IC18
and
19 should be connectedto
each other and to IC22.
With power on, you should be able to vary a front panel
control,such
as filter cutoff, and see IC7 pin 7 change voltage as
you
do it (in manual
mode).
And when you select different patches, you should see
the
attack at IC10-1decay
at IC10-7, etc changing with different patches. Be
careful
when probing with
the
power on not to short anything or you can damage chips
in
an
instant. Use the gndtest
pt for the meter black or negative lead.
Tell us what you measure at these points in the circuit
and
if they vary with the
corresponding
front panel control in manual mode, or when you change
patches.
Bob
From:
"Phil65 phil0065@yahoo.fr[PolySix]"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To:
PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May
28, 2014 6:05 PM
Subject:
Re: [PolySix]
EG and VCF not working after battery leakage
Thanks Bob for your quick answer !
Seems that my patch looses "EG" from memory.
I
have no
sound unless I put the VCA switch from EG back
to
"square" again to get some sound.
Not sure to keep the bank memory even when polysix is
still
on.
I did the procedure and it passes directly. Here a
quick
summary:
∗dummy 56
ohm => all leds on
∗remove resistance => A1 leds
∗SW1 in test mode and tape switch to enable => Only
leds
1+8 on
∗ SW1 back to normal => still leds 1+8
∗ "7 ) confirm that output DC click noise is
within
6V
p-p when power is switched off" => sorry I
don't
understand precisely what to do/ measure?
∗ Power on again => A1 leds on.
Thanks for your support
Phil
--------------------------------------------
En date de : Mer 28.5.14, Bob Grieb bobgrieb@yahoo.com
[PolySix] <PolySix@yahoogroups.com> a écrit :
Objet: Re: [PolySix] EG and VCF not working after
battery
leakage
À: "PolySix@yahoogroups.com"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Mercredi 28 mai 2014, 2h09
See if
these functions can be controlled correctly when using
patchesin
memory. If so, then the output from the CPU to the
analog
circuitsis
OK. Then you have a problem with reading the
controls.But
if the sound is always the same with all programs,
then
the
output
circuit is bad and maybe t is reading from the pots
OK.Did
you try the DAC calibration test in the manual? It
would
be helpfulto
know if that is working OK. Just the part where you
try
to
get the
two
LEDs to light up.
Bob
From:
"phil0065@yahoo.fr [PolySix]"
<PolySix@yahoogroups.com>
To:
PolySix@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 27,
2014 6:02 PM
Subject: [PolySix] EG
and VCF not
working after battery leakage
Bonjour !I am
French
and happy to join this group of Polysix owner. My old
Polysix bought back in
1983 has been sleeping in the attic since 1990,
until
I
have
returned back now to
my first
love. Unfortunately I have discovered the
battery
leakage problem !
So I did
the standard procedure (like many)Spend a
lot of time checking the lines on KLM-367 with plenty
of
leds on at start
up.. Browse internet for hours (discover service
manual, old crown, etc)…, change IC
30 & 31 … recheck continuity, still few leds
on..Recheck again, change all set of
panel switches (vintage planet)..4 leds on... Bank B
not
working...Check
lines again, to get finally only leds A1
on start up. Great !
Unfortunately sound
is not OK.
Tune seems
OK,
6 voices are OK, voltages from power board are OK
(15V,
5V
-5V and -15V) all pots
and switches seem to work except the 4x EG and 4x VCF
pots
which are not
active! I think at
this stage it is useless to do the calibration
procedure.
Is
there some indications,
checking to start with to define if it is still a
line/continuity problem or if electronic parts (IC,
diode..)
should be changed.
Thanks in
advance for your help
Phil
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