I have a JX-3P (as well as a polysix) the 3P didn't share the same chips/problem as it's rackmount version (or Juno 106) as far as I recall.
To:
PolySix@yahoogroups.comFrom:
tony@vyzor.comDate: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 08:04:24 +0000
Subject: [PolySix] Re: Polysix pricing getting out of hand?
Hi Kerry,
What a distinct pleasure it is to actually have a chance to thank you in person! You and Ramcur are also heroes along with the Old Crow, Jed and Andrew as far as I am concerned: The acetone fix for conductive JX-3P/MKS-30/Juno-106 voice chips was a breakthrough sharing of vintage synth-tech know how. Actually, I think you single-handedly stopped Junos and other Roland classics from being 'binned' like the poor Polysix was for so many years - Imagine how tragic it would be to see Junos and their brethren broken and covered in dust, mold and fungus like so many of the Polysixes we have seen offered on eBay these last few years...
I am a little biased of course - I owned a Juno 106 from their release until 1992, and recently bought a MKS-30 with a bad voice and your fix totally worked to put it right. Thanks so much for sharing the wealth, as it were!
Here's a totally unrelated but coincidental fact for you: Roland's first products were electric organs marketed under the name 'Ace Tone' ... only the logo had the two words connected to spell 'Acetone'... How's that for mystical foreshadowing ;-)
Tony
--- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "kb_cheapmods" <kerrybradley@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think it will be interesting to see the effect of the Hyperjed KLM367 update, but I wonder if it will drive prices up or stabilize them?
>
> I'm the guy who posted the Juno-106 acetone fix on Youtube last year (and once again, all credit to synth technician ramcur for sharing that trick with me). After I posted it, I wondered:
>
> 1. what the general response would be, since the 80017a issue was becoming a serious handicap for aging 106's.
>
> 2. how it would affect 106 resale prices.
>
> On the first item, I think the trick has saved a lot of 106's so I'm happy that's happening. On the second item, though, I don't think 106 prices have changed all that much since I posted it. It seemed maybe you could get a bargain from sellers who knew that their 106 had a bad voice; maybe now those bargains have dried up because there's a cheap DIY fix that could rescue the synth.
>
> On the Hyperjed P6 fix, it may be that there could be no effect on price? Either way, it's a lot of effort, as Tony describes, to get the p6 back up and running: that time is either redoing traces and debugging OR stuffing the new KLM367a. I'd much rather do the latter, since you end up with a reliable, nearly new motherboard in the end, but it still took a few evenings with the soldering iron.
>
> and I agree with Tony: _ALL_ vintage analog synths are going up in price now. I think one reason p6 and 106s have led the way is they have knobby interfaces, where the Kawai SX, Roland JX, Sixtrak, etc are single-knob/slider UI's. If this is true, then I guess the Akai AX-60 would be next synth to elevate in price...
>
>
>
> --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "psicraft_designs" <tony@> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > I agree with you here - I have seen the value of 'core' Polysixes (i.e. damaged and neglected non-functional units) go from $100 up to $500 in some cases.
> >
> > Aside from the fact that vintage Analog Polys are trendy right now, the Polysix has become a holy grail synth for a lot of people because while it's hard to find one that's fully operational, there are lots of units available in 'fixer-upper' condition: The result is that many younger users don't actually know first-hand what a Polysix sounds like in person. Those of us who WERE teenagers back when the Polysix was released only think we remember how it sounds - And let's be honest, nostalgia works wonders for those memories. Ever go back and hear an obscure song you loved as a kid for its brilliant composition, meaningful lyrics and excellent production for the very first time in decades only to discover that it's ... well ... kinda crap to your adult ears? Because most Polysixes we encounter are broken, the nostalgia can live on... That is until we fix what is broken, which brings me to the single most powerful reason Polysix prices are still climbing... I call it 'The Old Crow Effect'. ;-)
> >
> > Before I say anything - Don't get me wrong: I think the Old Crow is a great man for sharing his Polysix rebuilding secrets with the world - That website is almost certainly the reason I took an interest in the Polysix again (My first synth was a Mono/Poly and I really wanted a Polysix to go with it). When I saw Old Crow's site instructions for resurrecting a battery damaged polysix, that was it - I had to try it for myself and a new hobby project was born. I could almost hear Magnus Pyke yelling 'Science!' as I dusted off all my soldering and circuit repair tools: It was great! Not only was I going to get to be all Bob Moog-like (in my mind) and rebuild a synth from scrap, I was going to finally get that Polysix I missed out on when I was a teenager, and it was going to be cheap! Or so I thought at the time... :)
> >
> > The first Polysix core I got on eBay cost me $278, and boy... it was a CORE: Only fit for salvage, not repair. Back to eBay I went and grabbed another one for $250. This one was a lot better: It was in much nicer shape but had already been 'Old Crowed' by the seller... Uh oh... I've been an ELP fan for many years but never knew the meaning of 'Brain Salad Surgery' until I opened the lid on that Polysix... The battery damage was minor compared to what had been done since then by the valiant ex-owner. Just to be safe, I hit ebay again and ordered another core for the bargain price of $150. Unfortunately this one popped out of existence while in the FedEx system and since they had no trace of it (it was lost, after all) I was eventually told to forget about it and any renumeration in a letter from FedEx several months later... My advice to you should you choose to ship a synth in the USA? USPS, friends.
> >
> > The point I am making by relating all this is a simple truth known to all home improvement, hobbycraft and sewing supply shop owners: Doing it yourself is FAR more expensive than just buying new. When your granny knits you a fabulous sweater, the whole materials cost to her is likely to be many times the cost of a factory made sweater... If you factor in gran's time at your local legal minimum wage you'd probably find it retailing at $600, so remember to thank her profusely even if orange and green stripes aren't your bag.
> >
> > Anyhow, the Old Crow effect applies to the market like this:
> >
> > 1. Core Polysixes are now fought over by people from all around the world, each of them cheered on by a local copy of Magnus Pyke (or Tim the Tool Man Tailor if they are a tougher breed of musician). This drives up the price for a wrecked unit on eBay - 'Just imagine how coveted and expensive a WORKING one would be?' think the bystanders and bidders who fail to win the battle royale for the broken old box.
> >
> > 2. When someone successfully completes their rebuilding project they fire up the unit in triumph and go... "Yeahhhhhh!!!! ummmm....Meh. Sounds cool, but is it really what I need for my music?" For those who decide 'no', eBay comes back into play... Only this time the seller wants to recoup their investment in parts and labor, so the starting bid is set to $700 or more.
> >
> > 3. Meanwhile, for every victory story there are many other would-be synth builders who have learned to their dismay that Magnus Pyke is actually lousy with a soldering iron, and that a new Dremel tool's main feature is that it can grind/saw/chew up things extremely fast. They try avoiding the room with the Polysix corpse in it for a few months and eventually decide it's time to hit eBay and cash in on the growing demand for Polysix cores... Return to step 1 of the cycle, only this time it's listed as 'reconditioned but non-functional' with the appropriate bump in starting price.
> >
> > Now, if you thought the 'Old Crow' effect was something to behold, just wait till you see the 'HyperJed-Jury' effect hit the market... :) :) :)
> >
> > ... I'll save those predictions for another post. In the meantime I'll sign off with an encouraging yell of "Science!"
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Tony
> >
> > --- In PolySix@yahoogroups.com, "rob_ocelot" <rob.ocelot@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I've noticed a disturbing trend on Craigslist and ebay lately. The asking prices for a working Polysix have skyrocketed to the point where it's starting to make the Jupiter 6 an alternative option.
> > >
> > > So far the most outrageous price I've seen is $1200 for a nice looking Polysix with synthwood replacement case (perhaps $200 extra? I've never priced out a synthwood case). Another example was $1050 for a good condition P6 with the midi ARP clock add on (not real midi, and the kit is very inexpensive). Average asking prices seem to be in the $500-1000 territory.
> > >
> > > Are we seeing an adjustment of the P6 price based on the number of surviving units after the battery massacres and lack of general interest in Analogs during the 90's? Are we starting to see an appreciation for the P6 sound after years and years of Junos getting all the attention? Are we starting to see a price escalation like the TB-303 because because of collectors and speculators? Is the KLM 367 revival project and a good solution to the keyboard contact problem echoing the solution to the Juno 106 chip problems last year? Could it be that because every other analog seems to be going through the roof the overlooked ones are getting their due (if so, shouldn't the JX-3P, AKAI AX's, Kawai SX's and SCI Sixtrak be getting some love too?). Maybe all of these factors are contributing in some way.
> > >
> > > All I know is that it wasn't too long ago when P6's were like hot potatoes. People didn't want them and in some cases gave them away for cheap or free. Not to mention the number of heavily abused units I've seen. We all know how easily the P6 is to cosmetically damage (those darn laminated wood sides) but I've seen some that were so trashed the only way I knew it was P6 was because of the power cord wraps on the back panel. Remember when Johann's full midi option was considered too expensive because it was 3x the price of a P6 (and at that point you were better off with a Jupiter 6)?
> > >
> > > I never thought I'd see the day when a Polysix was priced higher than a Mono/Poly. Not bad for what was once called "Poor Man's Prophet 5".
> > >
> >
>
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