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Subject: Re: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 Sysex Patch Dump format

From: Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@...>
Date: 2010-12-10

From page 35 of the Owners Manual...

MIDI CC “Hardware Controller Friendly” Method

The third method is a non standard method for changing HAWK-800 parameters where a hardware MIDI controller is
being used to change parameters. This method makes it easier to set up a MIDI hardware controller that has sliders and
push buttons that can be assigned to parameter banks. This method uses MIDI CC's 22 through to 30. CC 22 is used to
select parameter groups. There are 16 parameter groups starting at P1 11 through to P1 88 and then P2 11 through to P2
88. Once a parameter group is selected then CC's 23 through to 30 correspond to the parameter within the selected
parameter group. To use this method, the MIDI CC messages would be sent in this order and format:
1) Send MIDI CC 22 with the data value set to select the desired
parameter group where 00-63 corresponds to groups P1 1x to 8x and 64-127 corresponds to groups P2 1x to 8x. When you
send this CC to the HAWK-800, the display will briefly switch to show the selected parameter group.
2) Send any MIDI CC from 23 to 30 where each CC corresponds to the parameters within the selected parameter group.
This means that with the parameter group selected (in step 1 above) you can use MIDI CC's 23 to 30 to set the parameters
of any of the 8 parameters within each parameter group.
So for example, use MIDI CC 22 to select the desired parameter group (say DCO1 group) then use MIDI CC's 23 to 30 to
change any of the parameters in that group (which would be DCO octave, DCO waveform, harmonics, level and DCO
mode).
The nice thing about this method is that a musician will generally edit HAWK-800 sounds by working inside of each
parameter group. So it is very convenient to be able to set up a hardware controller to select a parameter group and then
edit any one of the eight possible parameters in that group. Then the musician would select another parameter group and
edit the parameters within that group and so on.

And a little additional color...

So imagine that you have a MIDI hardware controller with one knob assigned to controller 22 and then you have eight sliders assigned to 23 through to 30.

Now let's say we want to edit EG1. In that case, you would use the knob to set the parameter group to P1 5_. Then you would edit attack, decay etc using the other eight sliders. Each one of those sliders is assigned to the eight parameters inside of the parameter group.

So then to edit EG2 you would use the knob to select P1 6_ and then again, use the eight sliders to set all parameters in EG2 parameter group.

I thought this was a nice way to edit parameters quickly using my Remote25SL.

I provided this group with the parameter data layout and the MIDI implementation along with the data format that was posted here should explain it. Now, what is your specific question regarding sysex?

Mike






From: k9k9dog <domgoold@...>
To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 6:54:37 AM
Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 Sysex Patch Dump format

 


hey guys,
well thanks tim, for showing us the tx thing, new to me.
the thing i found about the ex800, is that you'd tend not to fiddle with patches while you worked, as not very immediate, like a juno,
say. so a controller panel would be very fiiiine :)

i'm still looking at that midid implementation chart, and a bit confused by midi cc's 22-30, and their purpose ????? please
enlighten me if you know...

also trying to work out what the sysex messahe format:order is
exactly, as several types of message are listed(more time).

however, if any of you have your machine there, you can find out the
correct one (or any other black box) by performing a 'handshake':

open your cubase? list editor, and insert a data transfer request
message in the top line.
then arm cubase to record - with midi in/out reciprocally from
pc midi to device midi, and hit play; then stop play very
quickly (best not to have a short loop running...)

you will have captured a return message that gives you all the bytes
in the correct order. up to you then to work out which is the parameter variable (which will feature as 'xx' when you create your
(mixer map) object.

if you have a midi implemenation chart with al parameter numbers,
which we do, transpose them all into hex, and make an object for
each one.

this is the 'soft' version, and i'm going to try to suss out how
to do this with synthedit. then maybe someone can code it up as
a universam platform vsti... ????

i read about arduino, but over my head as yet...it might need to be a separate device addressing the sysex via assigned midi cc's, with
a midi cc> sysex interface going on....?

--- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, joe peak <lovgh2000@...> wrote:
>
> Ya know.......You've given me an idea......Like those old roland synths where they have a breakout box full of knobs and such.  One could make a midi box using the very hip Arduino, and make knobs controlling MIDI CCs. The box would connect via MIDI and could sit on the Poly's top panel where the parameter tables are....Giving real knobs for parameters. I was also thinking about hacking my Oxygen8 midi controller and taking out the eight knobs and slider then putting them into a custom made box to attach to the poly. Those knobs on the Oxygen are programmable and could be changed whenever needed.
>
>    Just an idea.........
>
>                                J.
>
>  
>
> --- On Thu, 12/9/10, tim.tashpulatov <tim.tashpulatov@...> wrote:
>
> From: tim.tashpulatov <tim.tashpulatov@...>
> Subject: [korgpolyex] Re: HAWK-800 Sysex Patch Dump format
> To: korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 2:21 AM
>
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> I agree, I would too prefer some on-screen controls with knobs and buttons running on PC. My setup is under Linux, and so far I haven't found any tools there suitable for hacking custom synth layout. You know, like those old true analog synth used to have on their front panels. (In fact, I havent even figured out how to just hack one single knob capable of sending certain CC.)
>
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> It's that I've got enough spare parts in my junk box, and the itch to solder together another something after I've assembled my HAWK-800 :)
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> --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "k9k9dog" <domgoold@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > hi tim: i read that article, and see what it does,
>
> > but would find editing tx/dx like that really frustrating
>
> > (although you'd have to have a go with it before judging)
>
> > i used to have a fun editor on the atari, and may even
>
> > have had a cubase mixer map for it.
>
> > for the poly/ex, seems like a nice GUI based editor
>
> > would be most useful (if using a pc/mac)
>
> >
>
> > --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "k9k9dog" <domgoold@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > ∗if i may say∗ (...) seems really xxxx heavyweight, lol!
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> > > for an issue that could be resolved more simply using sysex.
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> > > i used to get some quite complex sysex edits going on without
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> > > affecting timing, with multiple params moving, etc.
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> > >
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> > > am dl'ing this to examine offline, but think best to make
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> > > equivalent of a cubase 'mixer map', accessing any parameter
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> > > wanted via an GUI-based editor. ca make as synthedit(windows)
>
> > > VST instrument, and if anyone wants to port that to a Mac etc
>
> > > thing, can upload the project file.
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> > >
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> > > HOWEVER! if someone can accurately describe how to perform
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> > > NRPN edit via MIDI, that could be another method (never got it
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> > > to work here )
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> > >
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> > > ie: an object(fader/knob) sends out a(ny) parameter value variable
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> > > in realtime.
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> > >
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> > > --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, "tim.tashpulatov" <tim.tashpulatov@> wrote:
>
> > > >
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> > > > According to MIDI implementation, seems like it is possible to change one parameter at a time using CC84 and CC85. So I dug out my old proto board with Atmel MCU, some old touchpad and digital pot, and started thinking this over.
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> > > >
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> > > > And while looking for ways to attach pots to my board, I have found this:
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> > > >
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> > > > http://the-all.org/tx81z/twopot/index.html
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> > > >
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> > > > It's a simple project, sort of hardware patch editor with an LCD, a couple of knobs and MIDI output to control TX81Z. I guess something similar could be done for controlling HAWK-800, too. Having all the parameter names shown in human readable format on the LCD would be nice.
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> > > >
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> > > >
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> > > > --- In korgpolyex@yahoogroups.com, Michael Hawkins <korgpolyex800@> wrote:
>
> > > > >
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> > > > > Well, here is the raw format of the data. See the MIDI implementation for the
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> > > > > precise format of the sysex message.
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> > > >
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> > >
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