Mosc says it was never a royalty, and though there were never the words
"voluntary" or "contribution" in his initial messages, I think we
should assume the best intentions.
To be clear now, this is how it stands (I think): You don't have to pay
any contribution to E-M on Bridechamber Klee panels unless you want to.
I will set up a link or something so people can contribute, but I no
longer plan on directly sending money to E-M. My bookwork sucks anyway.
: )
Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...http://www.bridechamber.comJealous Edison Record Kompany
http://www.jealousedison.com On Apr 7, 2009, at 10:14 PM, thomas white wrote:
> Scott (Deyo),
>
> You should not pay EM. I fully support them and have much respect for
> them save this request they (MOSC) has come up with. Here's why...
>
>
> 1. Nobody at EM asked you to make panels for a freely available kit
> you don't have to be a member of a club to buy
> 2. Nobody at EM is paying you or arranging with you to produce ANY
> panels for freely available pcb projects
> 3. Nobody at EM has shared the risk and cost of production of the pcbs
> with you
>
> It is for these reasons I find the late asking for royalties, on what
> will be the single most expensive manufactured diy panel outside of
> FPE directly, to be abuse, a shame, and all around disrespectful to
> the service YOU are offering in the same fashion EM is offering to the
> community in many ways (They offer a pcb for guys who can't/won't make
> them on their own, you offer panels for the same reason). Rotary Klee
> Layout? Yes, it is my design. Yes I posted it for free for everyone to
> enjoy in the hopes someone as kind as you would produce it for the
> "small" diy masses. BUT, this discussion just makes me sour on it.
>
> I am a person that feels posting something like this is my ∗tiny∗
> contribution to the community from which I have learned/taken so much
> from. EM did in fact produce the pcb's and did in fact make money from
> them over the cost of production, which is THEIR royalty. Ask any
> lawyer. They don't own the name of the artist, not are they paying to
> use it. Scott only gave them rights to the ocb design, not subsequent
> panels made by third party vendors to support it. If they are asking
> you for a percentage, there should be the same request of every pcb
> seller on EM as a standard instead of a last minute request of a high
> dollar items ($20 plus $20 plus $20... = $$$$) Wide eyes and profit
> lust it sounds like to me. I sure hope it gets worked out for future
> stuff, if at all, and in advance of production to avoid cheap
> surprises like this.
>
> I don't feel good about buying my own panel due to this royalty issue.
> If it stays with EM getting royalties through this method I will have
> to withdraw my order and stick with my FPE file. TO BE CLEAR, EM does
> deserve something for what they do, but they got it already with every
> PCB sale. I gave them a percentage from my own pcb sales (LPG) but it
> was no where near %20. In the Klee case, there was no agreement that
> panels would have to be purchased from a licensed EM authorized sales
> location when I bought the pcb (like it soundssomeone is trying to
> turn Deyo into?) Scott Deyo, Scott Stites, and I are the ONLY ones who
> have any right to stand in line for a piece of this panel. Scott
> Stites and myself both humbly decline to make any money from this.
> Deyo takes the risk, plans it, invests in it and thus deserves his
> turn to make royalties.
>
> I support you 150% Scott, but I will not buy a panel if EM gets any
> royalties from it, not like this. I will not support anything like
> this. Having made and released music which involves my own history of
> BS royalty issues it comes down to a matter of personal principles.
> Take my panel, run with it. I submit to no further claim or future
> claim of royalties whatsoever for it, same as it has always been
> intended. If we all start asking Peter to rob Paul to pay Frank there
> will be no more synth_diy, or at least a whole lot less of it which is
> a means to an end I would like to stay out of. Keep it free and easy
> folks! Pay the deserving and don't ask for a piece of someone elses
> pie. My own example for this can be found in the LPG boards. I have
> orders for approximately 200 more boards, but I will not make them
> without Don's permission. Why? Simple. It is what I told Don I would
> do. No more, no less. You have to stand for something sometimes, even
> when it means you tell some people no, or don't make 10% off of
> additional board sales.
>
> Feel free to contact me offline (anyone) to avoid unecessary list
> bandwidth. We need to support each other. Scott will go out of
> business is the crew of designers start asking for royalties on panels
> (sheesh, it is SO silly to even write that). Stooge panels never had
> to pay royalties eh? I'll go back to FPE and burning my own pcb's
> before starting a new precident that will negatively effect everyone
> after a downward spiral into profit mongering. All my own opinion of
> course. I hope this has a happy resolution for all of our sakes. Keep
> us posted S.D.!
>
> Thomas
>
> Thomas White
> Natural Rhythm
> www.naturalrhythmmusic.com
>
>
> --- On Tue, 4/7/09, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>> From: Scott Deyo <contact@...>
>> Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Klee panel E-M royalty
>> To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 9:05 AM
>>
>> I see the point that I'm making a profit on the panels, but it's just
>> odd that someone could order the FPE panel at nearly $300 and E-M
>> would get
>> nothing. And like others have said, a cheaper panel leads to more PCB
>> sales.
>> To me, the spirit of DIY is manifest in folks like Thomas, who just
>> gave me the
>> product of all his work, and to everyone who helps me. And in Scott
>> Stites, who
>> donated such a
>> huge, cool design to E-M.
>> All of the "businesses" juggle the passion and business sides of
>> modulars. We all have the passion, and most of us are not so good at
>> the
>> business end. Sometimes the ball lands a bit on the business/ money
>> end, and
>> that sours it a bit for me. It has to remain fun, or it really
>> doesn't make
>> sense to continue, business-wise.
>> But Mosc and I will work something out. E-M is a great forum, and I'm
>> sure
>> it takes a bit of money and a lot of time to do, and it benefits all
>> of us,
>> especially the Bridechamber.
>>
>> Now I just hope that Ian, Scott, Paul, Jurgen, Ken, Paul, Ray, Yves,
>> Grant,
>> John and Tim, Thomas, Richard, Ryan, the 'ill's, Mr. Mike, and
>> everyone
>> else don't get any ideas...
>> : )
>>
>> To me the biggest bummer is just that I've been answering emails all
>> day.
>> Another day, further behind!
>>
>> And as far as royalties on parts... I guess State Machine gives a cut
>> on kits
>> he sells. So
>> I'm out on the kit end of it.
>>
>> But I hope everything I said doesn't sound negative. We'll have these
>> panels soon!!!!
>> Ze Klee is on de Vay!
>>
>> Scott Deyo
>> The Bridechamber
>> contact@...
>> http://www.bridechamber.com
>> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
>> http://www.jealousedison.com
>>
>>
>> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Scott Juskiw wrote:
>>
>> > That's absolutely ridiculous and I am vehemently opposed to it. I
>> paid
>> > royalties when I bought the PCBs. Are they also going to ask for a
>> > royalty on all the pots and switches needed to build it too?
>> Besides,
>> > didn't Thomas White design the panel? Shouldn't he get the
>> royalties
>> > instead? I suppose I should ask for a 20% royalty on all those
>> Neural
>> > Agonizer and Doomsday Machine panels that Bridechamber also sells,
>> > even though I didn't design them either. Where does this nonsense
>> end?
>> >
>> > Of course, Bridechamber could have silently included a royalty in
>> the
>> > panel sale from the onset and we'd never have known. Kudos to Scott
>> > for being up front. Shame on E-M.
>> >
>> > On 6-Apr-09, at 12:15 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I've been told that since the Klee is property of E-M, I am
>> supposed
>> > > to
>> > > add 20% royalty on panel sales. It's tricky for me to bring this
>> up,
>> > > but obviously I have to.
>> > > I need to know if everyone who committed, is still committed to
>> the
>> > > panels @ ~$120 instead of ~$100.
>> > >
>> > > General discussion of the royalty is OK, too, but... Probably
>> everyone
>> > > will be more than happy to support E-M, but I just had to say
>> "No
>> > > flaming please!!!"
>> > > : )
>> >
>> >
>
>