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Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Klee panel drama - TW Update

From: thomas white <djthomaswhite@...>
Date: 2009-04-08

Scott (Deyo),

You should not pay EM. I fully support them and have much respect for them save this request they (MOSC) has come up with. Here's why...


1. Nobody at EM asked you to make panels for a freely available kit you don't have to be a member of a club to buy
2. Nobody at EM is paying you or arranging with you to produce ANY panels for freely available pcb projects
3. Nobody at EM has shared the risk and cost of production of the pcbs with you

It is for these reasons I find the late asking for royalties, on what will be the single most expensive manufactured diy panel outside of FPE directly, to be abuse, a shame, and all around disrespectful to the service YOU are offering in the same fashion EM is offering to the community in many ways (They offer a pcb for guys who can't/won't make them on their own, you offer panels for the same reason). Rotary Klee Layout? Yes, it is my design. Yes I posted it for free for everyone to enjoy in the hopes someone as kind as you would produce it for the "small" diy masses. BUT, this discussion just makes me sour on it.

I am a person that feels posting something like this is my ∗tiny∗ contribution to the community from which I have learned/taken so much from. EM did in fact produce the pcb's and did in fact make money from them over the cost of production, which is THEIR royalty. Ask any lawyer. They don't own the name of the artist, not are they paying to use it. Scott only gave them rights to the ocb design, not subsequent panels made by third party vendors to support it. If they are asking you for a percentage, there should be the same request of every pcb seller on EM as a standard instead of a last minute request of a high dollar items ($20 plus $20 plus $20... = $$$$) Wide eyes and profit lust it sounds like to me. I sure hope it gets worked out for future stuff, if at all, and in advance of production to avoid cheap surprises like this.

I don't feel good about buying my own panel due to this royalty issue. If it stays with EM getting royalties through this method I will have to withdraw my order and stick with my FPE file. TO BE CLEAR, EM does deserve something for what they do, but they got it already with every PCB sale. I gave them a percentage from my own pcb sales (LPG) but it was no where near %20. In the Klee case, there was no agreement that panels would have to be purchased from a licensed EM authorized sales location when I bought the pcb (like it soundssomeone is trying to turn Deyo into?) Scott Deyo, Scott Stites, and I are the ONLY ones who have any right to stand in line for a piece of this panel. Scott Stites and myself both humbly decline to make any money from this. Deyo takes the risk, plans it, invests in it and thus deserves his turn to make royalties.

I support you 150% Scott, but I will not buy a panel if EM gets any royalties from it, not like this. I will not support anything like this. Having made and released music which involves my own history of BS royalty issues it comes down to a matter of personal principles. Take my panel, run with it. I submit to no further claim or future claim of royalties whatsoever for it, same as it has always been intended. If we all start asking Peter to rob Paul to pay Frank there will be no more synth_diy, or at least a whole lot less of it which is a means to an end I would like to stay out of. Keep it free and easy folks! Pay the deserving and don't ask for a piece of someone elses pie. My own example for this can be found in the LPG boards. I have orders for approximately 200 more boards, but I will not make them without Don's permission. Why? Simple. It is what I told Don I would do. No more, no less. You have to stand for something sometimes, even when it means you tell some people no, or don't make 10% off of additional board sales.

Feel free to contact me offline (anyone) to avoid unecessary list bandwidth. We need to support each other. Scott will go out of business is the crew of designers start asking for royalties on panels (sheesh, it is SO silly to even write that). Stooge panels never had to pay royalties eh? I'll go back to FPE and burning my own pcb's before starting a new precident that will negatively effect everyone after a downward spiral into profit mongering. All my own opinion of course. I hope this has a happy resolution for all of our sakes. Keep us posted S.D.!

Thomas

Thomas White


--- On Tue, 4/7/09, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
From: Scott Deyo <contact@...>
Subject: Re: [ModularSynthPanels] Klee panel E-M royalty
To: ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, April 7, 2009, 9:05 AM

I see the point that I'm making a profit on the panels, but it's just
odd that someone could order the FPE panel at nearly $300 and E-M would get
nothing. And like others have said, a cheaper panel leads to more PCB sales.
To me, the spirit of DIY is manifest in folks like Thomas, who just gave me the
product of all his work, and to everyone who helps me. And in Scott Stites, who
donated such a huge, cool design to E-M.
All of the "businesses" juggle the passion and business sides of
modulars. We all have the passion, and most of us are not so good at the
business end. Sometimes the ball lands a bit on the business/ money end, and
that sours it a bit for me. It has to remain fun, or it really doesn't make
sense to continue, business-wise.
But Mosc and I will work something out. E-M is a great forum, and I'm sure
it takes a bit of money and a lot of time to do, and it benefits all of us,
especially the Bridechamber.

Now I just hope that Ian, Scott, Paul, Jurgen, Ken, Paul, Ray, Yves, Grant,
John and Tim, Thomas, Richard, Ryan, the 'ill's, Mr. Mike, and everyone
else don't get any ideas...
: )

To me the biggest bummer is just that I've been answering emails all day.
Another day, further behind!

And as far as royalties on parts... I guess State Machine gives a cut on kits
he sells. So I'm out on the kit end of it.

But I hope everything I said doesn't sound negative. We'll have these
panels soon!!!!
Ze Klee is on de Vay!

Scott Deyo
The Bridechamber
contact@...
http://www.bridechamber.com
Jealous Edison Record Kompany
http://www.jealousedison.com


On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Scott Juskiw wrote:

> That's absolutely ridiculous and I am vehemently opposed to it. I paid
> royalties when I bought the PCBs. Are they also going to ask for a
> royalty on all the pots and switches needed to build it too? Besides,
> didn't Thomas White design the panel? Shouldn't he get the
royalties
> instead? I suppose I should ask for a 20% royalty on all those Neural
> Agonizer and Doomsday Machine panels that Bridechamber also sells,
> even though I didn't design them either. Where does this nonsense
end?
>
> Of course, Bridechamber could have silently included a royalty in the
> panel sale from the onset and we'd never have known. Kudos to Scott
> for being up front. Shame on E-M.
>
> On 6-Apr-09, at 12:15 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been told that since the Klee is property of E-M, I am
supposed
> > to
> > add 20% royalty on panel sales. It's tricky for me to bring this
up,
> > but obviously I have to.
> > I need to know if everyone who committed, is still committed to the
> > panels @ ~$120 instead of ~$100.
> >
> > General discussion of the royalty is OK, too, but... Probably
everyone
> > will be more than happy to support E-M, but I just had to say
"No
> > flaming please!!!"
> > : )
>
>