OK - I promise I'll shut up soon. One last long rant...
Scott Deyo, the only relevant point here is that the term "royalty" is completely inapplicable. And Gino just eloquently stated the consequence of that - along with what, I'll warrant, is an appropriate level of outrage.
I don't belong to E-M. I heard about the circuit and panel through my friends and MOSP - your (Scott Deyo's) own list. It had nothing to do with E-M. So in my case, E-M benefited from you (Scott Deyo) - not the other way around.
It doesn't matter how much money you make on the panel. That's between you and Thomas White and God. E-M has nothing to do with it at all and therefore E-M has no right to anything whatever.
Again, my loud objection has nothing to do with the money - it has everything to do with the principle. And that makes it sound like a merely intellectual issue - it's not. What we call things is important because they represent truth. (yes, I know I'm veering dangerously here). But no - really - it has to do with truth and honesty.
E-M deserves support. Goes without saying.
If, indeed, E-M is sending business to anybody - JH, Paul Schrieber, Yves, Bridechamber, etc, etc - it's reasonable for E-M to expect something in return. But there're names for that - "agency" or "brokerage." In this kind of relationship, E-M represents someone and has a reasonable expectation of compensation. Or perhaps E-M could allow advertisements from vendors.
Any of these things would be true, up-front, and honest to begin with. These terms represent the truth - that wheras E-M has no claim on the panel design, it wants support for providing the service of helping to make the sale. I'd have no objection whatever.
But my reasonable expectation has been that E-M is not the agent on my purchase of the Bridechamber-produced version of Thomas White's panel (which has no legal relation to E-M and therefore cannot possibly warrant a fee of any kind) If I take a walk, will you tax my feet? (Thanks, John Lennon)
Like so many have said already - I have no objection to supporting E-M, but the terms "Usury" (Gino), "Thievery" (what a bully does to you when he/she steals your lunch money, Thomas White), and "Extortion" (what a bully does what they realize you've got a good thing going and requires you to pay a fee to stay in their good graces, me) spring to mind when completely baseless claims are laid and couched in terms like "royalties." The words matter.
I can't help but think that there's been some misunderstanding here.
I'm not going to withdraw psychic support for E-M. Although my only relationship to E-M is that I bought the Klee PCBs there, it's obvious to me that E-M performs a great service and deserves support. I hope folks still drive to the E-M festival <G>.
But there's nothing fair about trying to levy a baseless fee after the fact. And I won't gladly pay it either. It's just wrong.
(I'll end up unhappily paying it if you (Scott Deyo) still end up sending E-M a fee - I mean - I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater.)
So saying, anytime E-M wants to solicit a donation from me, E-M is welcome to do so. And then I'll gladly shell out on the principle of wanting to contribute to our community which is small and needs all the support we can get.
But in reality - legally, morally, ethically - for the KLEE - I already paid. We all did. It's that simple.
Is this horse dead yet? Oh - come on - let's whip it some more <G>.
--- In ModularSynthPanels@yahoogroups.com, Scott Deyo <contact@...> wrote:
>
> I see the point that I'm making a profit on the panels, but it's just
> odd that someone could order the FPE panel at nearly $300 and E-M would
> get nothing. And like others have said, a cheaper panel leads to more
> PCB sales.
> To me, the spirit of DIY is manifest in folks like Thomas, who just
> gave me the product of all his work, and to everyone who helps me. And
> in Scott Stites, who donated such a huge, cool design to E-M.
> All of the "businesses" juggle the passion and business sides of
> modulars. We all have the passion, and most of us are not so good at
> the business end. Sometimes the ball lands a bit on the business/ money
> end, and that sours it a bit for me. It has to remain fun, or it really
> doesn't make sense to continue, business-wise.
> But Mosc and I will work something out. E-M is a great forum, and I'm
> sure it takes a bit of money and a lot of time to do, and it benefits
> all of us, especially the Bridechamber.
>
> Now I just hope that Ian, Scott, Paul, Jurgen, Ken, Paul, Ray, Yves,
> Grant, John and Tim, Thomas, Richard, Ryan, the 'ill's, Mr. Mike, and
> everyone else don't get any ideas...
> : )
>
> To me the biggest bummer is just that I've been answering emails all
> day. Another day, further behind!
>
> And as far as royalties on parts... I guess State Machine gives a cut
> on kits he sells. So I'm out on the kit end of it.
>
> But I hope everything I said doesn't sound negative. We'll have these
> panels soon!!!!
> Ze Klee is on de Vay!
>
> Scott Deyo
> The Bridechamber
> contact@...
> http://www.bridechamber.com
> Jealous Edison Record Kompany
> http://www.jealousedison.com
>
>
> On Apr 6, 2009, at 3:13 PM, Scott Juskiw wrote:
>
> > That's absolutely ridiculous and I am vehemently opposed to it. I paid
> > royalties when I bought the PCBs. Are they also going to ask for a
> > royalty on all the pots and switches needed to build it too? Besides,
> > didn't Thomas White design the panel? Shouldn't he get the royalties
> > instead? I suppose I should ask for a 20% royalty on all those Neural
> > Agonizer and Doomsday Machine panels that Bridechamber also sells,
> > even though I didn't design them either. Where does this nonsense end?
> >
> > Of course, Bridechamber could have silently included a royalty in the
> > panel sale from the onset and we'd never have known. Kudos to Scott
> > for being up front. Shame on E-M.
> >
> > On 6-Apr-09, at 12:15 PM, Scott Deyo wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've been told that since the Klee is property of E-M, I am supposed
> > > to
> > > add 20% royalty on panel sales. It's tricky for me to bring this up,
> > > but obviously I have to.
> > > I need to know if everyone who committed, is still committed to the
> > > panels @ ~$120 instead of ~$100.
> > >
> > > General discussion of the royalty is OK, too, but... Probably
> > everyone
> > > will be more than happy to support E-M, but I just had to say "No
> > > flaming please!!!"
> > > : )
> >
> >
>