On Fri, 9 Dec 2016 22:58:31 -0500, you wrote:
>The goal was to figure out if the touchup pen can be omitted from the
>process.
>Its hard to see to do the touchup.
One advantage of the foil is that you can easily see where the foil
did not adhere, since it is green and the toner typically black (has
anyone tried color toner?). Sharpie pen over the foil can work. You
can also look at the left over foil, which should be absolutely
transparent (100% transfer) for a good seal.
You can still scrape the toner/foil combination off, but it is more
rugged than just toner, and gives better results.
Harvey
>
>And as far as return on investment goes......
>IF it works with the craft TRF then that works out to less than a dime
>of TRF per PCB.
>
>
>
>
>On 12/09/2016 10:18 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@...
>[Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> I dont think the foil is going to add much that touching up with a
>> pen wont already.
>>
>> The foil will probably lessen the edge quality (ragged edges) and
>> possibly spread the traces when run through the laminator again.
>>
>> Im a bit dubious about the return on investment there. I remember
>> this stuff from years ago.
>>
>> Anyway, no harm trying. Less harm if its someone else trying it!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> ∗From:∗Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
>> ∗Sent:∗ Saturday, 10 December 2016 1:53 PM
>> ∗To:∗ Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
>> ∗Subject:∗ Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] IS GREEN TRF the same thing as Heat
>> Transfer Foil Pigment Laser Toner Foil
>>
>>
>>
>> Because the toner is not 100 percent etch resistant.
>> The toner leaks. Not a lot, a pin hole here and there.. a tracing gap
>> ..... imperfections.
>> The toner transfer isn't always perfect for me..... close... real
>> close to perfection.....
>> but not perfect every time.
>> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/laminator/pic/PIC16F628PROTO8d.jpg
>>
>> So I have taken up the procedure of going over the toner with a
>> sharpie permanent marker...
>> then found EDDING 404 MUCH better than the sharpie.....
>> and getting excellent etchings:
>> http://www.learnmorsecode.com/pic/line/IMG_5156a.JPG
>>
>>
>> So now we have this problem solved by an arts and crafts type of
>> transfer method
>> that is known to STICK TO TONER quite well.
>> I have not used it yet but intend to learn if the cheap 100 foot craft
>> toner reactive foil will
>> deposit an acid resistent layer.
>> It would save me the task of tracing the toner.
>> One thing to note about all this testing on my stuff is that I'm not
>> manufacturing anythign to sell.
>> I'm just documenting what works for me to share with the
>> kids....scouts....newbies......
>> and I'm not making real tiny SMT projects.....
>> much of my traces are 1/8th inch and nothing real critical here.
>> BUT
>> its nice to learn how this CAN be done smaller.....
>> and I don't think its possible to hand trace SMT toner traces without
>> screwing them up.
>> So if TRF foils do this sealant task then that would be real nice to
>> learn.
>>
>> And yes... I had that same thought about foil... metal... etching......
>> so I bought the notsoshiny stuff to play with...thinking its just the
>> pigment we want to stick to the toner.
>>
>>
>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>> FROM :https://www.circuitspecialists.com/pcb-trf-green.html
>> This Green foil has a special adhesive coating ("sizing") applied
>> underneath the pigment color. When the foil and toner image are
>> subjected to high heat and pressure, the color permanently fuse to
>> just the toner image.
>> The interesting thing about toner (from a laser printer or
>> photo-copier) is that it is madeup of about 55% pulverized plastic.
>> So, by covering a toner printed image previously transferred to the
>> copper board, and applying heat & pressure to it, the foil encapsulate
>> the toner. In effect, the black toner turns either Green or White. We
>> use these two foils for two different purposes.
>> GreenTRF is used to seal the toner "circuit image" after it has been
>> transferred to the circuit board.
>> Toner is a very porous material. If left alone and the board was
>> etched, you'd wind up with pitted surfaces or even hairline breaks
>> from cracks that were too small to see with the naked eye.
>> GreenTRF solves this problem by completely encapsulating the toner
>> image in one easy step. An absolute "must have" for producing quality
>> boards.
>> Film for colorizing and sealing black toner used as an "etch resist".
>> 8" wide, 15 feet long.
>> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/2016 09:06 PM, 'Tony Smith' ajsmith1968@...
>> <mailto:ajsmith1968@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> Why bother putting foil over toner if the toner already works as a
>> resist?
>>
>> Shiny though!
>>
>> I wonder if its conductive
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>> I see there is this:
>> Heat Transfer Foil Pigment Laser Toner Foil 8"x100' Roll OR
>> 4"x100' Roll US Made
>> so
>> I bought the 4 inch X 100 foot roll for $15 just to try it out.
>> Instructions all over the YOUTUBE say how to apply it to toner
>> artwork with an iron or laminator
>> so this looks to me like it might work for etching.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/2016 10:56 AM, Rob roomberg@...
>> <mailto:roomberg@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> I tried nail polish. I got what looked like crackle paint
>> hairline webs in the final copper traces.....
>> looked almost like ice crystals.... seemed to have shrunk when
>> it dried and then allowed acid to etch where it shrunk.
>> Considering all nail polish is not created equal there may be
>> a better etch resist nail polish. I am not the
>> guy to test all of them.
>>
>> At $9 ....seems the price of 15 feet of GREEN TRF is cheep
>> enough to warrant experimenting with it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/09/2016 04:25 AM, Kevin Byrne kbyrne10@...
>> <mailto:kbyrne10@...> [Homebrew_PCBs] wrote:
>>
>> Yea but my Green TRF gets perfect copper traces no pits,
>> no joke. Green trf under pieces of steel after? Would it
>> work? My old way was cheep nail polish a cheep artist
>> brush and direct etch. Nail polish remover to remove nail
>> polish after acid bath. That could be done cheep by just
>> going to dollar store for supplies and no more pits for
>> your art work on copper. Kevin
>>
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