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Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: G-10 questions

From: "Tony Smith" <ajsmith1968@...>
Date: 2015-10-07

Wrong paper, the stuff you had was for an inkjet printer.

 

You need to check if the paper is for laser.  I don’t know what the different coatings are but generally one won’t work in the other.  Or if it does the results are poor.

 

Some people are using actual lasers to do PCBs.  One method is to use an UV laser to expose a sensitised board.  Probably not worth the effort as it’s rather slow (with lasers people like us can afford anyway) since you’re raster etching, and depending on your mechanicals will be less accurate than using a mask & UV lamps.

 

UV laser: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SNkzoOvoD8, end result look good.

 

I own a few CO2 lasers (the ones you get on eBay) so the other method is of interest to me.  You take a plain copper board, paint it, and burn off the paint.  Etch the exposed copper and you’re done.

 

https://youtu.be/8j8PSk57xWU?t=4m10s. (I’ve got that same machine).  A bit of slow video, jump to 7:30 for the etching.

 

Once etched you could put it back in the laser to do the holes.  Double-sided would require drilling registration pins or something.

 

He’s raster etching as well (slow!) but you could do isolation milling.  Diptrace exports that as standard – nice!  As an isolation that board would only take a couple of minutes, and certainly quieter than a mill.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBUsOGMQdhM show the speed difference.  (Gah music and half the video seems to be missing but anyway.)

 

Hardest part seems to be finding a good paint (burns cleanly, no residue, resists etch), but everything from flat black to clear top coat seems to more-or-less work.

 

The ultimate is this: https://youtu.be/r2Vx_ErDiQM?t=0m55s.  You can do the holes as well.  Amazing considering some systems use copper as the mirrors!

 

Tony

 

 

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, 7 October 2015 8:32 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: G-10 questions

 

I tried using glossy photo paper in my laser once (by accident).. the heat caused it to melt kind of and shred itself.  Maybe the wrong printer?  I have an actual Minolta copier here too. 

 

I was down with the laser method but the fellow that made this video described a process that seemed rather simple to me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42GyLYxwris

 

The trouble for me is finding boards that are the right size (I think the ‘mainboard’ has to be 6”x9”) and then trying to find one that has the right vintage look.

 

From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Tuesday, October 6, 2015 11:47 AM
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: G-10 questions

 

 

You can get toner transfer sheet on ebay from China, but I use gloss photo paper meant for ink jet printers to print the laser image onto. I then place the heat transferred paper and PCB into the freezer for 20 mins and the paper peels off leaving a perfect image on the copper for etching.

Malcolm

I don't suffer from insanity I enjoy it!
Mene, mene, tekel, upharsin
The writing is on the wall.
Ha-ktovet al ha-kir

--------------------------------------------

On Tue, 10/6/15, 'Brad' unclefalter@... [Homebrew_PCBs] <Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: RE: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: G-10 questions
To: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, October 6, 2015, 6:58 PM


 









Thanks guys.  I think the important thing for me
is getting as close as I can to original material/look.  If
the toner process works just as well and avoids some
difficulting in finding presensitized boards, I could go
that route. Whatever it is, I just want something that has
that vintage G10 green look.  Brad  From: Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 1, 2015 12:55
PM
To: Homebrew PCBs
<Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Homebrew_PCBs] Re: G-10
questions    Sweet
Memories:
 There was once
a really super company called Kepro.
 They sold
presensitized (with Kodak KPR) boards stock, both paper and
G10 epoxy, for veryreasonable
prices, and in a variety of sizes. You could even send in
your own material andthey would
coat it for you.
 They also made
a comprehensive array of photo-coat/expose/etch equipment,
good enoughproto and
light production operations.
 When the Feds
put a ban on aromatic compounds like Kodak KPR and others,
the entireindustry went
belly up, including the aforementioned DynaChem, which was
also pretty goodstuff if you
took the time to learn how to use it
correctly.
 I think most
small-timers went to dry film resist, which is still
available from several offshoresellers on
Ebay. There are also some sellers of liquid resist on
Ebay.
 I just prefer
to purchase presensitized material from several suppliers on
Ebay, along withthe required
developer and plating solutions.
 Of course
etching is a cinch using a mixture of hydrogen peroxide and
muriatic acid, whichis sold in my
neck of the woods as swimming pool
cleaner.
 Copy machine
transfer is good if you like to fart around all day just to
produce a singlePCB.
 Keep the
faith.
 Roland F.
Harriston, P.D.∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗∗
 From:
"roger@...
[Homebrew_PCBs]"
<Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
To:
"Homebrew PCBs"
<Homebrew_PCBs@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015
8:34:54 AM
Subject: [Homebrew_PCBs]
Re: G-10 questions
  I also built
boards in the early years. One of the spray on resists was
produced by a company called Dynachem. It was a system that
required a solvent developer and a dye to color it so you
could see what was going on. Going by the odor of the
product, it was probably the same product later sold through
GC Electronics with the dye added to the resist. Bishop
graphics made the the stick on pattters for the tape up
artwork. They patterns were available in 1X, 2X and larger
IIIRC. I had a camera lens I picked up at a surplus store
and made my own setup for 2X artwork and used Kodalith sheet
film for the negatives. The spray on resist gave me
inconsistant results, probably more my fault than the
products fault. There was also a dry transfer product that
used rub-on patterns and traced. There were also dry
transfer letters for labels on projects. I still have some
of the G10 copper clad material from that era never used it
all.
 No virus found in this
message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database:
4409/10551 - Release Date: 08/31/15
Internal
Virus Database is out of date.









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No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2015.0.6086 / Virus Database: 4409/10551 - Release Date: 08/31/15
Internal Virus Database is out of date.